Re: firewall test and NAT

<snipped>
Read the entire conversation:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/3c579a58e5ce5a68/




Leythos wrote:
<snip>
With all of the issues that have been in the media, anyone getting
malware has just got to be stupid, at least for the most part.
<snip>

<snipped>

ToddAndMargo wrote:
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My only disagreement with Leythos was the stupid comment. All you
have to do is "visit" an compromised web site with Internet
Explorer and you are infected. The users has no control over it,
except stop using IE.
<snip>

Shenan Stanley wrote:
Seriously?

I am surprised (given your other comments) you can say something
like, "The users has no control over it, except stop using IE." Not all
problems center around Microsoft created anything. You can
(and people do) get infested/infected using all sorts of different
browsers. ;-)
I do disagree with the Leythos quote (above - although I haven't
checked to confirm it was actually Leythos who posted it) in that
people can be intelligent and even careful and still get
infested/infected; but for you to say that the users have no
control over such things except to stop using Internet Explorer -
that does show some level of at least self-inflicted blindness on
your part.
I personally use Firefox and Internet Explorer just about evenly. I use
IE7 for the most part but have 'upgraded' to IE8 on several
machines. In many ways - some of the features others may find
useful, I find a bit annoying - but I am sure I will get used to
them and even probably miss them eventually on non-'upgraded'
machines.
For the most part - users of the machines I help manage utilize
IE7. They have the option (always have) of using Firefox - but
some (could because of limitations of web pages and plugins they
have to use) don't use it at all and others only click on it
infrequently (sometimes I think out of curiosity or strange
accident.) There are some that use it a lot, excluding when they
need to use the certain pages I alluded to.
*None* have become infected/infested. They've had scares (in both
cases) - but thanks to the setup (which consists mainly of them
being 'user-level' and protected by AV/AS with the built-in
firewall enabled and most behind a drawbridge firewall - the latter
two of which has little effect in this discussion of spyware/adware
infection via web pages) they have not been infested/infected in
the years I have been around and helping to manage them.

ToddAndMargo wrote:
I like to use several overlapping security features to protect
my users. One of them is to get off IE. IE has a L-O-N-G soiled
reputations for being security swiss cheese. And, yes, if a
user lands on a compromised site, he typically has no control
over it, depending on the virus.

By the way, Mozilla pays for security bugs last I heard. And,
they usually fix them in two days. Compare that with IE, which
is a week to never.

There is no religious extremism here. It is just the way it
is. IE is just bad (security) code. There are all sorts of
charts out on the Internet comparing security problems in
Firefox to IE. They will open your eyes. Microsoft makes
other good stuff -- don't get your nickers in a twist.

Let's do clarify one thing - if Microsoft disappeared tomorrow completely -
I could care less. No celebration, no mourning - just a different day.

It was not that you were attacking Microsoft that prompted my response - it
was/is the inferrence of "you'll be safe if you don't use IE" in the
statement you made I was referring to. A little to specific to ring true.
If you had said the same thing about Opera or FireFox - the response would
have been no different.

Reputations (good and bad) are often exaggerated to ridiculous proportions
by such blanket statements such as the one you made. I just wanted to chime
in before someone read it and took it as gospel.

While I personally will (and have) recommend people use alternative browsers
(to Internet Explorer) for various reasons, including security - the
statement you made should have been broader, IMO.

'These days, all you have to do is "visit" a compromised web site and you
may get infected/infested.'

You may be using the latest Firefox, the latest Opera, the lates Internet
Explorer with the latest patches on each of them. You might even have other
protections in place beyond that afforded to you by the browsers themselves.
You can still be blind-sided and that changes every day.

Give and take.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


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