Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

On Jul 18, 12:53 pm, "John John (MVP)" <audetw...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I don't know the exact mechanism of how a full format (or chkdsk) checks
for bad sectors on a hard drive.  That information may be available
somewhere but I don't have it and I don't know what it does when it
checks for bad sectors, I think it just tries to read sectors without
writing anything, I can tell you is that it doesn't write zeros (or
anything else) to the drive.

All I can tell you is that a full format does not write zeros to the
drive and that it leaves ALL the data on the disk UNTOUCHED!  You don't
have to believe me if you don't want to, that is fine by me, but maybe
you will believe it if you get the information from a data recovery company:

Q: Can I recover data from a formatted disk?http://www.easeus-photorecovery.com/docs/faq/Can-I-recover-data-from-...

John



Charles Lee wrote:
if nothing writes anything to the sectors during format, then how can
anything tell whether a sector is good... its no use only reading a sector
header....

you seem to have a fixation on taking lots of time to write zero's
it would not take any longer to write the track headers than the write them
with a buffer full of anything

It quite obvious that chkdsk wont write zeros over data when simply checking
a disk (outside of the formating routine)

but to check a sector for reliability, the original data must be read, then
random data written there then original data put back & then verified thats
its the same

"John John (MVP)" <audetw...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ef6o8OD6IHA.2064@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

When was the last time that you wiped or "zero filled" a drive?  It takes
a long time to zero fill a hard drive.  I don't know the exact method that
Chkdsk uses to test for bad sectors but it surely doesn't write and read
zeros or else it would wipe all the data on the drive when it checks it!
Low level formats no longer exist, these are antiquated terms from the
long gone days of MFM hard drives, that was eons ago, and it has nothing
at all to do with formatting for the use of an operating system, it isn't
and wasn't the same thing at all and quite frankly it is a procedure that
was rarely ever required.

No Windows versions has ever zero filled hard disks when it formats them,
formatting a hard drive leaves all the data intact on the hard drive, it's
been like that since Windows 95, and it has been like that since day one
with the NT class operating systems.  If you don't believe me then try it
and find out for yourself!  Format a hard disk then use a disk editor and
take a look at the drive, you will see a new file table and new boot
sector (if you change the file system type) but otherwise you will still
see all the sectors in the data area untouched!  That the formatting
utility doesn't zero fill the drive is why it is possible to recover data
on formatted drives, even MS-DOS could "unformat" a drive, a feat that
would have been absolutely impossible if the data area had been
overwritten with zeros.

John

Charles Lee wrote:

how does chkdsk work then, does it only check checksums... don't it write
anything at all during format to check working sectors for 'sticky bits',
if it don't, then chkdsk would be a waste of space too.... I was under
the impression it was thorough....
So far, from what your saying, the full format dont write any sector data
at all and chkdsk doesn't check for the common problem of 'sticky bits'
which all magnetic media suffer from...

you seem to think it takes ages to write zero's...????

whole tracks get written very quickly & the track buffer must contain
data regardless of whether its all zero's or not....

it's only if a program has to write to individual sectors instead of
complete tracks that would take ages...

here's a test for you, what do you think a 'low level format' is
then....???

"John John (MVP)" <audetw...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23ByQguA6IHA.1196@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT
format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is
absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated.  What
was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were
no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days!  If you want to
zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use..
The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to
zero fill the drive.  If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping
utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your
500GB drive with zeros!  Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's
standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the
formatting process with this unnecessary step.

John

Charles Lee wrote:

Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's,
not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic
for the old Atari in a cartridge....

when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout
each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous....

"John John (MVP)" <audetw...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Charles Lee wrote:

or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly....

No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from
the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be
arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be
available. There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it
available to the operating system.  Would you want to waste your time
filling a new hard disk with zeros?  What you are thinking of is a
"wiping" utility, nothing to do with formatting at all.

John.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow this post made it to two pages. I'm so proud of myself.
"Can't we all just format along"
Thanks everyone it's been a really great time.
.

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