Re: PC shuts down immediately after POST
- From: w_tom <w_tom1@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:08:50 -0800 (PST)
Problem may have been made exponentially complex because something
was fixed without first collecting facts and identifying a suspect.
'Fixed' may be what was, once, not defective. Is the problem hardware
or software? Even that was unknown. Now, both a hardware and
software problem may exist - solution now made exponentially more
complex.
Things reviewed before fixing anything. What does the system
'event' log report? Any problems recorded long ago that the system
was working around (waiting for you to come back later, find, and
fix)? What does Device Manager report?
Why is the file VAX347B.sys loading? What is this device or
software that uses that code? And yes, VAX347 could have been a
reason for crashing your system. Why - using what fact - did you
assume otherwise? The point made repeatedly. VAX347B is still
'unknown'; not 'definitively something'. Any answer that is not
'definitive' means nothing accomplished.
This is an NT based OS. Therefore a list of suspects is much
shorter AND should not include disk drives.
Computers must work perfectly even in a 100 degree F room and when
full of dust. That assumes a computer was properly constructed. As
long as fins between heatsinks have any hole, then dust obstruction
was not (should not have been) a problem. Removing a heatsink from
CPU can only add more problems. Any properly constructed heatsink
will conduct sufficient heat even without thermal compound. As long as
existing compound did not contain lumps (heatsink sits flat), then
heatsink should have remounted properly on CPU. Heat would only
create problems in 70 degree F if a semiconductor was defective.
Stop trying to fix things. Assume multiple problems now exist
because things were 'fixed' without identifying a suspect. Break the
problem down into parts - then work out those individual parts.
Information from logs and Device Manager must be available (which is
lost if Windows is reloaded - try to fix something without a
suspect). Establish what hardware is and is not defective. Currently
everything is in a third category - 'unknown'. After all that
previous work, everything is still 'unknown' meaning nothing has been
accomplished. Accomplishment means moving each 'unknown' to a
'definitively something' category.
One subsystem that can make everything else appear defective is the
power supply 'system'. Hardware could have been defective 6 months
ago and still boot a computer. Yes, a defective power 'system' can
still be declared by others as good because the computer booted. That
'system' (power supply is only one 'system' component) is still
'unknown'. Two minutes and a $20 tool can move that 'system' from
unknown to 'definitively good' using a procedure in "When your
computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the
newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh
No other way exists to establish 'definitively good' except with
$hundreds in equipment. Don't disconnect anything. Not even one wire
or one peripheral. Just get facts - the numbers. In your case and
especially important are numbers from the orange, red, yellow, and
purple wires just before system crashes. Numbers posted here would
result in other useful information. Replies will only be as good as
facts you provide.
Responsible computer manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware
diagnostics. You don't have those free tools. Download each
diagnostic from component manufacturers or third parties.
Fortunately, the NT OS limits suspects to video controller, sound
card, CPU, memory, and some motherboard functions. Memtst86 can be
downloaded to test memory. But the test is not sufficient until also
executed with computer in a 100+ degree room or with memory (and
related motherboard ICs) heated by a hair dryer on highest settings.
If memory also passes a perfectly normal high heat test, then
something has been accomplished. Memory moved from 'unknown' to
'definitively good'.
Appreciate how one steps through a problem. Never fix anything
until the suspect is identified. Accomplishment means taking each
subsystem from 'unknown' to 'definitively something'. This performed
to analyze the hardware side. Again, break a problem down into parts
and analyze those parts. Same applies to software side.
Was a malware diagnostic program (ie McAfee or Trend Micro) loaded
and was it executed recently? Malware is but another possible reason
for failure.
Booting in safe mode lists what does load properly. Just before the
system crashed, what was the loading file (driver)? What happens when
that file is temporarily renamed so that it does not get loaded?
Again, fix nothing. We are still searching for the suspect. Fixing
comes later when we determine why that suspect is causing failure and
then replacing/repairing/removing that suspect. But again, accomplish
something only by breaking a problem down into parts, analyzing those
parts, and moving everything (step by step; one by one) from 'unknown'
to 'definitively good' or 'definitively bad'.
On Dec 14, 8:43 am, rosspu...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
My homebuilt PC, which has worked fine for a couple of years, suddenly.
isn't working after I cleaned out the pounds of dust from inside it.
During POST process, the BIOS/RAID controller seems to identify the
hard drives properly (I'm running two pairs of RAID-1 mirrored SATA
drives) ...and I think it's not the drives anyway because of the last
bullet-point below.
System goes through the BIOS part of the startup without problems but
then either shuts down or reboots almost immediately:
* If I try to boot into windows, it shuts down after a couple seconds
of the "blinking light" moving from left to right on the first Windows
screen.
* If I try to boot into safe mode, it shows a long list of drivers on
the screen, the last of which I believe is mup.sys, and then says at
the bottom center, "press ESC to cancel loading VAX347B.sys", and then
crashes. I doubt that VAX347B is the problem, however, because of the
following:
* If I disconnect all hard drives from the system and boot from a
Windows XP CD, it shuts down or reboots when screen says "Windows is
inspecting your hardware configuration."
During the cleaning process, I removed the CPU fan, cleaned it and
replaced it. Someone suggested to me that if it weren't back on
exactly right, that could cause the problem so I took it off again and
put it back on and thecomputerthen worked...for two days...after
which all the symptoms returned. I don't believe it's overheating
because the crash will happen 15 seconds after starting a coldcomputer(though I suppose that doesn't mean thecomputercouldn't
think it's a heat issue.)
When I was restarting the PC after the original cleaning, I thought I
heard my UPS make an odd noise as if turning on the PC caused a sudden
(bad) power draw...and I thought I smelled something burning. It was
very faint. I moved around some cables and tried again and that issue
went away, but that certainly could have caused a problem...I just
don't know what problem.
When I boot into BIOS setup, thecomputerwill run without stopping.
When I go into the BIOS monitor sections for voltage and for
temperature, all readings seem to stay within very narrow and normal
ranges.
Any thoughts on this would be GREATLY appreciated!
- References:
- PC shuts down immediately after POST
- From: rossputin
- PC shuts down immediately after POST
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