Re: Call alright....

No, you have it twisted. You originally stated that for MS to allow
manufacturers to
NOT ship original CD's shows what MS thinks of their customers. (Charging
customers twice)
I said it would be illegal for them to edict that.
You disagreed. I said check with any corporate attorney.
Now you say that HALF the people who don't get the orig. CD end up buying
it. I completely disagree.
I pointed out that none of the big manufacturers ship the orig CD. Name one!
You are saying OEM only ship 'crappy, useless restore CD's. I disagree.
Where do you get the data that half of the buyers of OEM buy the original
Windows CD?
You infer that 50% of the people who buy a Dell, IBM, Lenovo, HP, etc. end
up buying
an original Windows CD. I COMPLETELY DISAGREE. If you misunderstand, I
mean that OEMs provide a means of restoration.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23%2316mSBIIHA.3768@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is turning into another one of your discussions where you completely
turn everything upside down. You really don't understand what you read!
The whole point of my posts was that large OEMs no longer ship "real"
windows cds with their computers, they only ship crappy useless restore
cds, then at the last minute you post that you "...cannot think of a
single large manufacturer that ships an XP CD."! Well duh! Isn't that
what I have said right from the start of my "complain session"! Sheesh!
Pay attention to what others write and reread the posts before you reply!

To properly maintain a Windows installation these restore cd are useless,
so many of the people who got these disks with their computers end up
having to go out and buy real Windows cd, sooner or later they need the
real cd to properly service their Windows installation. The consumers
bought and paid for their license when they purchased the computer and
when they need the real real Windows cd they go at Walmart or Best Buy and
they pay for the license again!

It is something that we see over and over again in these groups and it is
something that those of us who repair computers for others often see,
people get tired of not being able to even do anything as simple as a
repair install, they are stuck with all or nothing disks that can only
wipe and return the computer to factory conditions! You were just minutes
ago having a discussion with another fellow on another discussion group
where he flatly said that to fix his Dell computer he was going to have to
go out and buy a real Windows cd. What is it that you don't understand in
the posts? On second thought don't bother answering, because I see
exactly where you are going with this, I have seen it before...

John

Unknown wrote:

You are totally confused. I cannot think of a single large manufacturer
that ships an XP CD.
IBM, Dell, HP, Lenovo, name one. They each however provide a means to
restore the
computer to its 'shipped state'.
Consumers do not pay twice for their operating systems.
Where on earth do you get the fact that half of the people that buy these
computers go back and buy
another Windows copy?
You say that is what happens and everyone knows it. I DON'T KNOW THAT.
What's more it is a ridiculous statement and untrue. I can't think of a
single person in my groups
that have purchased 'another copy' of Windows. And there are many in my
groups.
Lets take a poll. See next post!
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23$pbGH$HIHA.1208@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You seem to think that having consumers to pay twice for their operating
system is an acceptable practice, lets face it, half of the folks who get
sucked in to buying and accepting computers with these crappy restoration
disks sooner or later end up having to go to the nearest big box store
and buying another Windows copy to properly service their operating
system, they have to pay twice for it! Let's not fiddle around the
issue, that is what happens and everybody knows it! Now you put two and
two together and figure out why the parties involve say nothing about
this, you figure out who gets paid twice! If the state A-Gs need to get
involved in this it won't be to protect manufacturers, it will be to
protect the consumers from the blatant collusion that is happening with
the sale of every new Windows computer!

Are there other goods that you think that consumers should have to pay
for twice for no good reasons?

John

Unknown wrote:


"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uwOs1D%23HIHA.2100@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


They (the manufacturer's) are being forced to include a method of
reinstalling Windows as it is now, so why aren't they suing about that?


Are you sure about that? How long would you expect a manufacturer to be
in business
if he provided no recovery? Since most manufacturers have their own menu
of
what is shipped with their computers a 'real' XP CD would be useless
anyway.



It's a non issue, being told to include a real Windows cd with the sale
of a Windows license would not be a trade restriction, they could still
ship their restoration cd along with the real McCoy if they wanted to.
The manufacturers say nothing because they too do not have the better
interests of the consumers in mind, they have other motives in mind,
which I might add is why companies are in business.


Their motive is to create profits, customer relations and to cut costs.
Technical support is a high expense and poor customer relations
(not having restore) does not lead to repeat customers.



But we all know what is going on with this and why none of the players
say anything or do anything about it. We know all too well who the
losers are in this game, we know who it is that pays the price.
Surprising that you could mention A-G in your post and not be censored,
must be because the wrong party was at the receiving end in my earlier
posts ;-)

John


What is really going on is not what you erroneously think. Your
(emotional?) logic is flawed.


Bob I wrote:



Yep, and then the manufacturers would have the A-G sueing MS for trade
restrictions.

John John wrote:



Suit yourself but what you say is not true. The manufacturers are
selling licenses and Microsoft need only say that the CD is part of
the license and that it must be included with the sale, as it now
does for small OEMs and generic CDs. It really is that simple,
Microsoft can force small manufacturers to do it and they could force
the big guys to do it if they wanted to.

John

Unknown wrote:



Check with any corporate attorney----they cannot edict a 'real' CD
be shipped.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OI58zO8HIHA.4688@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Well, isn't that what this part of discussion was all about? Why
are real Windows cd's not shipped with new Windows computers?
Manufacturers must supply a (one) reinstallation method, Microsoft
tells them which methods are acceptable and leaves it to them to
chose which reinstallation method they will supply. If
manufacturers wanted to include a real windows cd they could and if
Microsoft wanted manufacturers to include "real" Windows cd with
the sale of new Windows computers it could simply make it a
mandatory condition of the distribution agreement. The plain and
simple fact is that there are ulterior motives involved in the
equation but I can't mention them because if I do my posts are
censored.

John

Unknown wrote:




Reread 'present rules'. I agree a restoration method is required
but shipping a CD is not.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23Q9VQK6HIHA.484@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




Microsoft has censored three of my posts in this thread so
obviously this is a pretty touchy subject for them, they don't
want their customers to know what is going on with this. To
engage in an open and frank discussion on the subject the
discussion will have to be taken to an .alt group.

This is part of what I said in my last censored post:

"Of course they can! There is nothing illegal about it and that
is how they did it in the past. If you want to sell computers
with Windows installed on them you have to enter into an
agreement with Microsoft. Small system builders don't bother too
much with this, they sell too few machines or do not have the
resources to comply with complicated agreements so they just
purchase generic (Microsoft) OEM disks and accept the terms of
the Small System Builders agreement, part of which stipulates
that they *must* include the generic OEM cd with the sale of the
computer. http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/default.mspx

The large OEM's have different agreements with Microsoft and part
of their agreement stipulates that they *must* include a method
of reinstalling Windows with the sale of the computer. The
present rules state that the reinstall method can be a real
Windows CD (or a real copy, that the manufacturer can stamp out
itself), a manufacturer's restoration/image CD or a service
partition that contains the installation files or an image. If
the manufacturers don't comply with the rules they cannot sell
Windows software licenses. To put an end to the problems
Microsoft can simply state in its rules that the manufacturers
must supply a real cd."

But then maybe this post might also be in vain, it too may be
censored...

John

Unknown wrote:





Sorry, they CANNOT do that. Illegal.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uoeAdOxHIHA.4476@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Of course Microsoft can dictate that real cd's be included with
the sale of new computers. They now dictate that the
manufacturers must include a method of reinstalling Windows,
all they need to do is tell the manufacturers that they must
ship a real Windows cd with the computer.

John

Unknown wrote:






Why blame Microsoft? How about the manufacturers? Get the
facts of each case first. Example: One manufacturer provides
instructions on recoveries and gives instructions on creating
recovery CD's.
It is not Microsoft's responsibility nor do they have
authority to dictate the shipment of the CD's.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uuRh7DjHIHA.4584@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx






Without the XP setup CD it is next to impossible to properly
maintain a Windows installation. That Microsoft permits
manufacturers to ship Windows computers without this
essential CD speaks volumes of what Microsoft thinks of its
customers, not much!

You should be able to carry out Malke's instruction by using
the setup floppy boot disks.

How to obtain Windows XP Setup boot disks
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994/

Somehow I think that I already know what your next post is
going to be...

John

chawdretto wrote:







cheers for the help again, but my comp didnt come with any
windows xp cd when i bought it. it was already installed on
it...is this a problem or should it have the cd?







.

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