Re: Call alright....

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This is turning into another one of your discussions where you completely turn everything upside down. You really don't understand what you read! The whole point of my posts was that large OEMs no longer ship "real" windows cds with their computers, they only ship crappy useless restore cds, then at the last minute you post that you "...cannot think of a single large manufacturer that ships an XP CD."! Well duh! Isn't that what I have said right from the start of my "complain session"! Sheesh! Pay attention to what others write and reread the posts before you reply!

To properly maintain a Windows installation these restore cd are useless, so many of the people who got these disks with their computers end up having to go out and buy real Windows cd, sooner or later they need the real cd to properly service their Windows installation. The consumers bought and paid for their license when they purchased the computer and when they need the real real Windows cd they go at Walmart or Best Buy and they pay for the license again!

It is something that we see over and over again in these groups and it is something that those of us who repair computers for others often see, people get tired of not being able to even do anything as simple as a repair install, they are stuck with all or nothing disks that can only wipe and return the computer to factory conditions! You were just minutes ago having a discussion with another fellow on another discussion group where he flatly said that to fix his Dell computer he was going to have to go out and buy a real Windows cd. What is it that you don't understand in the posts? On second thought don't bother answering, because I see exactly where you are going with this, I have seen it before...

John

Unknown wrote:

You are totally confused. I cannot think of a single large manufacturer that ships an XP CD.
IBM, Dell, HP, Lenovo, name one. They each however provide a means to restore the
computer to its 'shipped state'.
Consumers do not pay twice for their operating systems.
Where on earth do you get the fact that half of the people that buy these computers go back and buy
another Windows copy?
You say that is what happens and everyone knows it. I DON'T KNOW THAT.
What's more it is a ridiculous statement and untrue. I can't think of a single person in my groups
that have purchased 'another copy' of Windows. And there are many in my groups.
Lets take a poll. See next post!
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:%23$pbGH$HIHA.1208@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You seem to think that having consumers to pay twice for their operating system is an acceptable practice, lets face it, half of the folks who get sucked in to buying and accepting computers with these crappy restoration disks sooner or later end up having to go to the nearest big box store and buying another Windows copy to properly service their operating system, they have to pay twice for it! Let's not fiddle around the issue, that is what happens and everybody knows it! Now you put two and two together and figure out why the parties involve say nothing about this, you figure out who gets paid twice! If the state A-Gs need to get involved in this it won't be to protect manufacturers, it will be to protect the consumers from the blatant collusion that is happening with the sale of every new Windows computer!

Are there other goods that you think that consumers should have to pay for twice for no good reasons?

John

Unknown wrote:


"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:uwOs1D%23HIHA.2100@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


They (the manufacturer's) are being forced to include a method of reinstalling Windows as it is now, so why aren't they suing about that?


Are you sure about that? How long would you expect a manufacturer to be in business
if he provided no recovery? Since most manufacturers have their own menu of
what is shipped with their computers a 'real' XP CD would be useless anyway.



It's a non issue, being told to include a real Windows cd with the sale of a Windows license would not be a trade restriction, they could still ship their restoration cd along with the real McCoy if they wanted to. The manufacturers say nothing because they too do not have the better interests of the consumers in mind, they have other motives in mind, which I might add is why companies are in business.


Their motive is to create profits, customer relations and to cut costs.
Technical support is a high expense and poor customer relations
(not having restore) does not lead to repeat customers.



But we all know what is going on with this and why none of the players say anything or do anything about it. We know all too well who the losers are in this game, we know who it is that pays the price. Surprising that you could mention A-G in your post and not be censored, must be because the wrong party was at the receiving end in my earlier posts ;-)

John


What is really going on is not what you erroneously think. Your (emotional?) logic is flawed.


Bob I wrote:



Yep, and then the manufacturers would have the A-G sueing MS for trade restrictions.

John John wrote:



Suit yourself but what you say is not true. The manufacturers are selling licenses and Microsoft need only say that the CD is part of the license and that it must be included with the sale, as it now does for small OEMs and generic CDs. It really is that simple, Microsoft can force small manufacturers to do it and they could force the big guys to do it if they wanted to.

John

Unknown wrote:



Check with any corporate attorney----they cannot edict a 'real' CD be shipped.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:OI58zO8HIHA.4688@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Well, isn't that what this part of discussion was all about? Why are real Windows cd's not shipped with new Windows computers? Manufacturers must supply a (one) reinstallation method, Microsoft tells them which methods are acceptable and leaves it to them to chose which reinstallation method they will supply. If manufacturers wanted to include a real windows cd they could and if Microsoft wanted manufacturers to include "real" Windows cd with the sale of new Windows computers it could simply make it a mandatory condition of the distribution agreement. The plain and simple fact is that there are ulterior motives involved in the equation but I can't mention them because if I do my posts are censored.

John

Unknown wrote:




Reread 'present rules'. I agree a restoration method is required but shipping a CD is not.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:%23Q9VQK6HIHA.484@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




Microsoft has censored three of my posts in this thread so obviously this is a pretty touchy subject for them, they don't want their customers to know what is going on with this. To engage in an open and frank discussion on the subject the discussion will have to be taken to an .alt group.

This is part of what I said in my last censored post:

"Of course they can! There is nothing illegal about it and that is how they did it in the past. If you want to sell computers with Windows installed on them you have to enter into an agreement with Microsoft. Small system builders don't bother too much with this, they sell too few machines or do not have the resources to comply with complicated agreements so they just purchase generic (Microsoft) OEM disks and accept the terms of the Small System Builders agreement, part of which stipulates that they *must* include the generic OEM cd with the sale of the computer. http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/default.mspx

The large OEM's have different agreements with Microsoft and part of their agreement stipulates that they *must* include a method of reinstalling Windows with the sale of the computer. The present rules state that the reinstall method can be a real Windows CD (or a real copy, that the manufacturer can stamp out itself), a manufacturer's restoration/image CD or a service partition that contains the installation files or an image. If the manufacturers don't comply with the rules they cannot sell Windows software licenses. To put an end to the problems Microsoft can simply state in its rules that the manufacturers must supply a real cd."

But then maybe this post might also be in vain, it too may be censored...

John

Unknown wrote:





Sorry, they CANNOT do that. Illegal.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:uoeAdOxHIHA.4476@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Of course Microsoft can dictate that real cd's be included with the sale of new computers. They now dictate that the manufacturers must include a method of reinstalling Windows, all they need to do is tell the manufacturers that they must ship a real Windows cd with the computer.

John

Unknown wrote:






Why blame Microsoft? How about the manufacturers? Get the facts of each case first. Example: One manufacturer provides instructions on recoveries and gives instructions on creating recovery CD's.
It is not Microsoft's responsibility nor do they have authority to dictate the shipment of the CD's.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:uuRh7DjHIHA.4584@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx






Without the XP setup CD it is next to impossible to properly maintain a Windows installation. That Microsoft permits manufacturers to ship Windows computers without this essential CD speaks volumes of what Microsoft thinks of its customers, not much!

You should be able to carry out Malke's instruction by using the setup floppy boot disks.

How to obtain Windows XP Setup boot disks
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994/

Somehow I think that I already know what your next post is going to be...

John

chawdretto wrote:







cheers for the help again, but my comp didnt come with any windows xp cd when i bought it. it was already installed on it...is this a problem or should it have the cd?







.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Call alright....
    ... I pointed out that none of the big manufacturers ship the orig CD. ... an original Windows CD. ... windows cds with their computers, they only ship crappy useless restore ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: fall abrupt...
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    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Call alright....
    ... You seem to think that having consumers to pay twice for their operating system is an acceptable practice, lets face it, half of the folks who get sucked in to buying and accepting computers with these crappy restoration disks sooner or later end up having to go to the nearest big box store and buying another Windows copy to properly service their operating system, they have to pay twice for it! ... If the state A-Gs need to get involved in this it won't be to protect manufacturers, it will be to protect the consumers from the blatant collusion that is happening with the sale of every new Windows computer! ... Microsoft can force small manufacturers to do it and they could force the big guys to do it if they wanted to. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Call alright....
    ... that have purchased 'another copy' of Windows. ... sucked in to buying and accepting computers with these crappy restoration ... Since most manufacturers have their own menu ... Microsoft can ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: all corrupt.
    ... If you want to sell computers with Windows ... installed on them you have to enter into an agreement with Microsoft. ... If the manufacturers don't comply with the rules they cannot sell Windows ...
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