Re: Call alright....

You are totally confused. I cannot think of a single large manufacturer that
ships an XP CD.
IBM, Dell, HP, Lenovo, name one. They each however provide a means to
restore the
computer to its 'shipped state'.
Consumers do not pay twice for their operating systems.
Where on earth do you get the fact that half of the people that buy these
computers go back and buy
another Windows copy?
You say that is what happens and everyone knows it. I DON'T KNOW THAT.
What's more it is a ridiculous statement and untrue. I can't think of a
single person in my groups
that have purchased 'another copy' of Windows. And there are many in my
groups.
Lets take a poll. See next post!
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23$pbGH$HIHA.1208@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You seem to think that having consumers to pay twice for their operating
system is an acceptable practice, lets face it, half of the folks who get
sucked in to buying and accepting computers with these crappy restoration
disks sooner or later end up having to go to the nearest big box store and
buying another Windows copy to properly service their operating system,
they have to pay twice for it! Let's not fiddle around the issue, that is
what happens and everybody knows it! Now you put two and two together and
figure out why the parties involve say nothing about this, you figure out
who gets paid twice! If the state A-Gs need to get involved in this it
won't be to protect manufacturers, it will be to protect the consumers
from the blatant collusion that is happening with the sale of every new
Windows computer!

Are there other goods that you think that consumers should have to pay for
twice for no good reasons?

John

Unknown wrote:

"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uwOs1D%23HIHA.2100@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

They (the manufacturer's) are being forced to include a method of
reinstalling Windows as it is now, so why aren't they suing about that?


Are you sure about that? How long would you expect a manufacturer to be
in business
if he provided no recovery? Since most manufacturers have their own menu
of
what is shipped with their computers a 'real' XP CD would be useless
anyway.


It's a non issue, being told to include a real Windows cd with the sale
of a Windows license would not be a trade restriction, they could still
ship their restoration cd along with the real McCoy if they wanted to.
The manufacturers say nothing because they too do not have the better
interests of the consumers in mind, they have other motives in mind,
which I might add is why companies are in business.


Their motive is to create profits, customer relations and to cut costs.
Technical support is a high expense and poor customer relations
(not having restore) does not lead to repeat customers.


But we all know what is going on with this and why none of the players
say anything or do anything about it. We know all too well who the
losers are in this game, we know who it is that pays the price.
Surprising that you could mention A-G in your post and not be censored,
must be because the wrong party was at the receiving end in my earlier
posts ;-)

John


What is really going on is not what you erroneously think. Your
(emotional?) logic is flawed.

Bob I wrote:


Yep, and then the manufacturers would have the A-G sueing MS for trade
restrictions.

John John wrote:


Suit yourself but what you say is not true. The manufacturers are
selling licenses and Microsoft need only say that the CD is part of the
license and that it must be included with the sale, as it now does for
small OEMs and generic CDs. It really is that simple, Microsoft can
force small manufacturers to do it and they could force the big guys to
do it if they wanted to.

John

Unknown wrote:


Check with any corporate attorney----they cannot edict a 'real' CD be
shipped.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OI58zO8HIHA.4688@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Well, isn't that what this part of discussion was all about? Why are
real Windows cd's not shipped with new Windows computers?
Manufacturers must supply a (one) reinstallation method, Microsoft
tells them which methods are acceptable and leaves it to them to
chose which reinstallation method they will supply. If manufacturers
wanted to include a real windows cd they could and if Microsoft
wanted manufacturers to include "real" Windows cd with the sale of
new Windows computers it could simply make it a mandatory condition
of the distribution agreement. The plain and simple fact is that
there are ulterior motives involved in the equation but I can't
mention them because if I do my posts are censored.

John

Unknown wrote:



Reread 'present rules'. I agree a restoration method is required
but shipping a CD is not.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23Q9VQK6HIHA.484@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Microsoft has censored three of my posts in this thread so
obviously this is a pretty touchy subject for them, they don't want
their customers to know what is going on with this. To engage in
an open and frank discussion on the subject the discussion will
have to be taken to an .alt group.

This is part of what I said in my last censored post:

"Of course they can! There is nothing illegal about it and that is
how they did it in the past. If you want to sell computers with
Windows installed on them you have to enter into an agreement with
Microsoft. Small system builders don't bother too much with this,
they sell too few machines or do not have the resources to comply
with complicated agreements so they just purchase generic
(Microsoft) OEM disks and accept the terms of the Small System
Builders agreement, part of which stipulates that they *must*
include the generic OEM cd with the sale of the computer.
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/default.mspx

The large OEM's have different agreements with Microsoft and part
of their agreement stipulates that they *must* include a method of
reinstalling Windows with the sale of the computer. The present
rules state that the reinstall method can be a real Windows CD (or
a real copy, that the manufacturer can stamp out itself), a
manufacturer's restoration/image CD or a service partition that
contains the installation files or an image. If the manufacturers
don't comply with the rules they cannot sell Windows software
licenses. To put an end to the problems Microsoft can simply state
in its rules that the manufacturers must supply a real cd."

But then maybe this post might also be in vain, it too may be
censored...

John

Unknown wrote:




Sorry, they CANNOT do that. Illegal.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uoeAdOxHIHA.4476@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




Of course Microsoft can dictate that real cd's be included with
the sale of new computers. They now dictate that the
manufacturers must include a method of reinstalling Windows, all
they need to do is tell the manufacturers that they must ship a
real Windows cd with the computer.

John

Unknown wrote:





Why blame Microsoft? How about the manufacturers? Get the facts
of each case first. Example: One manufacturer provides
instructions on recoveries and gives instructions on creating
recovery CD's.
It is not Microsoft's responsibility nor do they have authority
to dictate the shipment of the CD's.
"John John" <audetweld@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uuRh7DjHIHA.4584@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Without the XP setup CD it is next to impossible to properly
maintain a Windows installation. That Microsoft permits
manufacturers to ship Windows computers without this essential
CD speaks volumes of what Microsoft thinks of its customers,
not much!

You should be able to carry out Malke's instruction by using
the setup floppy boot disks.

How to obtain Windows XP Setup boot disks
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994/

Somehow I think that I already know what your next post is
going to be...

John

chawdretto wrote:






cheers for the help again, but my comp didnt come with any
windows xp cd when i bought it. it was already installed on
it...is this a problem or should it have the cd?










.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: fall abrupt...
    ... Windows cd's not shipped with new Windows computers? ... If manufacturers wanted to include a real windows cd ... they could and if Microsoft wanted manufacturers to include "real" Windows ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: fall abrupt...
    ... Microsoft can force small manufacturers to do it and they could force the big guys to do it if they wanted to. ... "John John" wrote in message ... real Windows cd's not shipped with new Windows computers? ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: fall abrupt...
    ... Why should Microsoft force the vendor to include/create two different system restore CD's for a single model of a PC? ... John John wrote: ... It's a non issue, being told to include a real Windows cd with the sale of a Windows license would not be a trade restriction, they could still ship their restoration cd along with the real McCoy if they wanted to. ... The manufacturers say nothing because they too do not have the better interests of the consumers in mind, they have other motives in mind, which I might add is why companies are in business. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: fall abrupt...
    ... The manufacturers are selling licenses and Microsoft need only say that the CD is part of the license and that it must be included with the sale, as it now does for small OEMs and generic CDs. ... Windows cd's not shipped with new Windows computers? ... If manufacturers wanted to include a real windows cd they could and if Microsoft wanted manufacturers to include "real" Windows cd with the sale of new Windows computers it could simply make it a mandatory condition of the distribution agreement. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Did you buy another copy of Windows??
    ... Will everyone who had to buy another copy of Windows CD because they ... sucked in to buying and accepting computers with these crappy restoration ... Since most manufacturers have their own menu ... Microsoft can ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)