Re: Booting PC disconnects ADSL Modem

The problem based upon what is currently seen does not break down
into a specific suspect AND does not say anything that is definitive.
IOW the diagnostic test was a way of turning the cube 90 degrees to
get a completely new perspective while eliminating the "Windows"
variable from that test. The test would have tested three lowest
level network layers of which only the first layer is hardware. These
are the three layers that Windows is in control when talking on that
LAN - everything on computer side of network.

Unfortunately, it sounds like your ethernet hardware is from a least
responsible source - no diagnostics. IOW everything is fine as long
as no problems result. Look in Device Manger (and other parts of
Windows) to better identify the actual NIC hardware and manufacturer.
But it sound like your ethernet is from some backroom third world
hardware source. Without that other perspective (worst case
diagnostic data test), we have so little to analyze.

You suspect Windows. There are seven layers in a network
interface. Which layer is the problem? It would probably be in the
first four. First three layer problems should be completely masked
(blocked) by the router. I have been assuming you know ADSL is lost
only because the router light says ADSL is lost. IOW a loss of local
network is not being confused with loss of WAN (ADSL)? What you
suggest is a problem in layer four. But your computers have no access
to that layer on the ADSL side. Only he other side of the router
controls that.

That hardware diagnostic (worst case) data test with two or three
computers would have reported so much more - literally turn the
problem into a set of intersecting lines - so that the problem could
be limited to certain known suspects.

What I am not sure now - it is the wife's computer that created
the network crash? The wife's computer creates that crash when
accessing the router via network wire AND via Netgear wireless card in
wife's computer?

Again, that Ethernet diagnostic was for more than testing the
Ethernet chip. It was testing with the Windows variable completely
removed and it was testing lowest level network layers including the
router. If that test between two computers talking only on the same
local network (only talking via a bridge) was crashed by powering the
suspect machine, then we knew something useful. It was about
establishing 'definitively' what is known good and what does actually
crash.

A less useful test to do same would be to setup two computers
pinging each other constantly (PING -t 192.168.x.xxx) and then
learning what happens as the suspect computer boots.

So that you are not confused. All those ethernet ports for a local
network (LAN) are connected only by a bridge (inside the router box).
Any data output by any one computer is seen by all that share the same
bridge. ADSL (other side of router) sees nothing exchanged via the
bridge. ADSL only sees data with an address that must pass through
and be modified by the router. That is an important difference
between a bridge connecting all household computers as opposed to a
router that connects the bridge to a WAN (ADSL on other side of
router).

Data exchanged between computers on same bridge should never pass
through router - not cause ADSL problems. Only data with IP addresses
outside the bridge get modified and setup to ADSL by router. No data
on bridge should cause ADSL to shutdown.

That ADSL connection is controlled completely by router and DSLAM in
the telephone CO. That ADSL connection literally wraps any computer
data into a package and ignores anything inside that package - called
a packet. Any data from one computer would not crash ADSL because the
data is simply 'boxed and shipped'. WAN network (ADSL) only sees the
box - not what is inside the box.

Galvanic isolation is why Ethernet ports are rated to withstand
thousands of volts without damage. It is also why touching speaker
wires from a TV or stereo does not result in an AC mains electric
shock. During computer hardware setup, one network interface could
send an electric current into the router even causing failure on the
other (ADSL) side of the router. But galvanic isolation should
isolate electric (hardware) currents from computer from the router.

Is Windows creating something that would crash both the local
network AND pass through the router to crash ADSL? Nothing like that
should exist in data streams. I would use tools such as the
oscilloscope and network sniffer to confirm this. But that is well
beyond what we can do here.

Can Windows send data through router to shutdown ADSL? Only if a
specific command unique to that router setup page is sent to turn on
and then turn on the ADSL signal, or to order the router into reset.
IOW a startup program (either in the Start>Startup folder or loaded in
Registry to startup on powerup) unique for that router is somehow
loaded in the suspect machine? Well you could boot the suspect
computer with Task Manager open, then monitor every process that loads
and executes. But Windows must load before Task Manager can. Again,
according to how I read previous posts, your problem occurs before
Windows can load any processes. Problem would occur before Task
Manager appears on Windows screen.

One final information source. You have two computers. Do data
lights (on both computer NIC and on router front panel) flash at the
same times when each computer is booted? Does the suspect computer
appear to output more data OR output unique data just as the ADSL
crashes? How does the data light from suspect computer coincide with
when ADSL is lost and same flashing does not occur from other
computer?

What (low level layer) data from Windows can crash a WAN (ADSL) on
the other side of a router? None that I can think of. Nothing in
lower layer data transfers (what Windows controls) should be able to
do that. Hardware currents blowing through conductors that should not
be carrying a current that could do that (due to galvanic isolation).
My hope here is that additional information identifies some 'noun'
that is being misused and therefore implying something that does not
really exist or that does exist and is not being conveyed by the
appropriate verbiage.

On Nov 3, 6:46 pm, Marts <marts...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
...
Okaaay, I'll see what I can find about "Marvel Yukon".... But I reckon I'm
wasting my time.
...

We seem to be focusing on the ethernet chip. What is swaying my thinking that
it's a Windows issue (and why I posted it here in the first place) is that it
was occuring when the PC was connected wirelessly using a Netgear 108mbps PCI
wireless network card, with a Netgear wireless router at the other end. That in
turn was connected via ethernet through one of its 4 ethernet ports (there is a
5th one for bridge connections to an ADSL modem but it isn't being used)
directly into the modem. The PC was disconnecting the modem even then. I thought
that when I installed ethernet networking in the house that this problem would
be resolved.

The NIC was disabled both in BIOS and via Windows (well, it didn't see the NIC
as it was disabled). But the problem was still there.

The network itself is sound. It's a new installation, done by a professional
using the appropriate equipment to terminate the cables and to test the cable
connections afterwards.

Fact that it was also doing it when I used a patch cable that I run across the
floor from the suspect PC to the modem and the problem still exists tends to
also eliminate cabling as a suspect.
...

What's "galvanic isolation"?
...

If it's hardware which I do not think that it is, as I can reproduce the problem
under a range of different configurations. The common denominator here seems to
be Windows itself.
...

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: router problem
    ... 2)configure the ADSL Gateway. ... You then need to type the IP address of the router into your browser. ... assigned when a network connection is configured to obtain an IP ... address automatically and it can't contact a DHCP server starts with ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web)
  • Re: Two nic setup right / How do see if it is secure
    ... network, where xx is not 01 or 100. ... The router should be in the same network as the external nic. ... adsl 10.57.201.1, but I can go out to the internet. ... that you ADSL modem is connected to (not the switch where the LAN NIC ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
  • Re: Netgear Router settings ?
    ... SSID of your WiFi Network very easily - it *isn't* any ... IP Addresses of a Computer in your Network to it. ... with no Protection from the Firewall in the Router. ... *first* you need to make sure that the ADSL Synch Light is on. ...
    (uk.people.silversurfers)
  • Re: Is this possible?
    ... Workgroups are a Windows networking thing and having nothing to ... being spewed out by the other network. ... I don't know if this is possible, but you'd need an ADSL ... modem rather than a router to do this, which then goes to a switch connected ...
    (comp.sys.acorn.networking)
  • Re: Trying to use UltraVNC
    ... router or your work's router. ... I suspect the former, in which case I suspect that you won't be able to ... Normally, you would log in to your work's network using, say, VPN, and ...
    (comp.security.firewalls)