Re: Which XP to use
- From: "Rock" <Rock@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:43:06 -0700
"cnic" <fcnicolai@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
I had to disable it or every time I turned the computer on I was met with a warning that the startup had been changed (msconfig). There wasn't any place to turn that off without disabling the UAC. Once it was disabled, the same window that comes up in XP shows on the first bootup after changes have been made and allows you to not show the message again. I am the only person who uses this computer so there is very little risk of someone else messing with something.
This is easy to take care of. The principle is that any program that runs at startup that wants admin privileges will be blocked until permission is given for it. That is to give you control over what runs. When changes are made with msconfig, the next time the system is started msconfig attempts to alert you that changes were made. But msconfig needs admin privileges to run so it get's blocked.
So what you do is click on the icon in the notification area to show the blocked programs and hold the mouse over the choice to run blocked programs. The flyout menu will display the list of blocked programs. In this case it will have System Configuration Utility. Clicking on will trigger the UAC prompt. Give credentials or elevate and msconfig runs. It will then pop up a dialog box that changes were made (just as in XP). Tick the box to tell it not to alert you again. The box goes away, and assuming you don't make any more changes through msconfig, the next time you restart, it won't run. So the only time this pops up in when you have made changes. Not a big deal.
The point is though, that I want to be alerted that something is running at startup asking for admin privileges. Vista doesn't care what the program does, it only cares about your intention and that intention cannot be ascertained beforehand. In this instance it's an easy thing to deal with.
Also, in order for some of my programs to update, the UAC had to be turned off. Otherwise, the updated files would not go into the "mirrored" program files to run. I installed several updates without it turned off, but with administrative privileges but they would never show up on my program information. The original version was all that was recognized. Once I turned off the UAC, I re-installed the updates and the version changed in the program like it should.
I'm not sure I understand all this, but this tells me the programs are not coded properly. I have never had a problem with apps not updating. Sometimes they want to stick an utility in at startup to check for updates each time, which except for an AV program is really no needed, so I remove those, but I have never had a program not update properly. Of course it can depend on the app so I'm not saying it wasn't a problem for you, it's just that it shouldn't have been and doesn't have to be.
Also, the "protected mode" of my IE would not work unless the UAC is off. On my IE, at the bottom of the screen in the taskbar, it says, "Protected Mode: On or Off" one of the two. No matter what I did, the protected mode would not show as "on" until the UAC was disabled.
That is a significant problem and shows there is something messed up in the image set down by HP or horked by some program that was installed with it or something you installed or a malware infection. Running IE7 in other than protected mode looses much of the security. And additionally if UAC is off then protected mode is off. IE7 can't run in protected mode if UAC is disabled, so IE7 showing protected mode on when UAC is disabled indicates something is seriously wrong with the installation.
I also couldn't open anything but a Microsoft program without being told that an "unidentified program was trying to access my computer." These are perfectly safe programs I have used for years and I checked with the publishers before I installed them to make sure they were compatible with Vista. They assured me they were.
So did they have an explanation for why this was happening if it was compatible with Vista? Sorry I don't buy that explanation from the software folks. Or there was a problem with the underlying Vista installation to begin with, which I am thinking is part of the reason, or both.
The programs work just fine in the Vista, but a security shield sits on top of the icons all the time to warn me that they are a risk to my computer. However with the UAC off, I don't get the annoying message anymore.
The securty shield is an indication that the OS thinks that program needs elevation to run. When this happens I would ask, why does that program need elevated privileges?
Running without UAC might help that issue but it opens the system up to any malware that wants to run with admin privileges.
I was instructed to turn off the UAC by the technical support at HP. They said it was the only way to make these changes and keep any of this from happening.
That advice shows how messed up they are. If the OEM provides an installation where the only way they can get things to work is to disable UAC, or their advice to address other issues is to turn off UAC, that's ridiculous.
There were some serious problems with that installation. Unfortunately it would be very hard to sort that out by starting with a fully packed sytem and removing layers (ie all your 3rd party software installed to start with).
As I said in a previous post the way I would approach this is start with a clean install of the HP image, then strip the installation to it's bare minimum removing all the additional garbage put on by HP. You should be able to get it to a condition where things work well, and IE7 can operate in protected mode with UAC on. If you can't then the issue is with the image HP set up, their hardware and their drivers.
If it is running well then Image that with Acronis True image so you have a base to start with, then start adding one program at at time.
It's so much easier if you have an installation DVD and build the system from there. I really dislike these OEM installs, and pesonally I dont' waste time with them. I prefer getting a retail copy of the OS, and blow away the OEM install, and build on that.
Do a dual boot with XP so you can keep things running as fine tune the Vista system.
I can see why you were so frustrated, and you got a typical gargabe response from HP tech support. Sorry it's been so messy for you.
"Rock" <Rock@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote
"cnic" <fcnicolai@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wroteThanks Bruce,
Disablig the UAC is the first thing I do.
Personally I don't have a problem with it. I get very few prompts now. There were more when first setting up the system. UAC gives the user control over what is running with admin privileges. Choosing the right software helps too. Here are some links with info on the purpose/use of UAC. There is a paradigm shift in Vista, UAC is one aspect of that. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future with respect to UAC. The main issue is ascertaining user intent.
Confusion about Vista Features: What UAC Really Is
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/03/01/confusion-about-vista-features-what-uac-really-is.aspx
Why is Windows Vista always asking for my permission: An explanation of UAC (User Account Control)
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/security/uac.aspx
Windows Vista User Account Control Step by Step Guide
http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/0d75f774-8514-4c9e-ac08-4c21f5c6c2d91033.mspx?mfr=true
--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
.
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