Re: Windows vista will leave too many people behind.

Wow, you're still rambling on about the use of the word "force". If you
look back to my first post in this thread I clearly stated my use of the
word. Even in my last post I explained how I was using the word. But
again, this was not the main point of *my* post(s). Feel free to review my
earlier posts and and if you have any questions or need any clarifications
on what I meant then I will gladly continue this discussion. But you and
"the others" continuing to focus on a single word is just wasting time.


Shenan Stanley wrote:
GO wrote:
What is the point of this thread? Have you not been reading it?
It's about MS forcing people to upgrade. While I may not agree
with all the points made here, the points I have made are valid
and no one has been able to convince me otherwise yet. I realize
they can't be fully backwards compatible, things change and
that's a fact of life. What I don't like is when compatibility
is broken intentionally.

Shenan Stanley wrote:
"forcing"?
You are being forced to upgrade by Microsoft?
They came to your home and inflicted bodily harm?
They threatened legal action if you did not upgrade to Vista?

If you are being 'forced' by anything - it is your choice of
lifestyle and interaction with others - I cannot see any other
'force' making you get Windows Vista. Hell - you don't even have
to use a Microsoft OS - no one is *forcing* you to do that.

Forced...
Please. If you are that easy to 'force' - just turn your wages
over to me? Why?? - because I said to.

GO wrote:
Why don't you go read a dictionary? Forcing something does not
always mean being coerced into it. Forced can also mean to
persuade or to have the power to influence or control. But rather
than nitpicking over one simple word why don't you address the real
point of my message?


Point? You stated what your point and that of 'this thread' was quite
clearly - concisely - for the record... You chose your words
carefully - or I assume you did because you chose to put them in type
on a public newsgroup for all to see for many years to come. You
said..

What is the point of this thread? Have you not been reading it?
It's about MS forcing people to upgrade.

I will bring the dictionary to you...
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/force

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Vulgar Latin
*fortia, from Latin fortis strong

1 a (1) : strength or energy exerted or brought to bear : cause of
motion or change : active power <the forces of nature> <the
motivating force in her life> (2) capitalized -- used with a number
to indicate the strength of the wind according to the Beaufort scale
<a Force 10 hurricane> b : moral or mental strength c : capacity to
persuade or convince <the force of the argument>

2 a : military strength b (1) : a body (as of troops or ships)
assigned to a military purpose (2) plural : the whole military
strength (as of a nation) c
a body of persons or things available for a particular end <a labor
force>
<the missile force> d : an individual or group having the power of
effective action <join forces to prevent violence> <a force in
politics> e often capitalized : POLICE FORCE -- usually used with the

3 : violence, compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a
person or thing

4 a : an agency or influence that if applied to a free body results
chiefly in an acceleration of the body and sometimes in elastic
deformation and other effects b : any of the natural influences (as
electromagnetism, gravity, the strong force, and the weak force) that
exist especially between particles and determine the structure of the
universe

5 : the quality of conveying impressions intensely in writing or
speech <stated the objectives with force>

So, I doubt you mean #5...

I doubt you mean #4...

Yep, I used #3 in my explanation for emphasis - but I knew you did
not mean that which is why my statement continued...

Now you *might* have meant 2d...
You did specify just Microsoft - and unfortunately for you, despite
what you may believe, Microsoft does not 'force' anyone
(hardware/software manufacturers) to do anything.

Sure - Microsoft has the largest market share, so they are indirectly
influencing the decision of all of these businesses to sell products
that work on the Windows OSes - but nothing says those same
manufacturers could not choose to either *not* sell for Windows OSes
or sell a product that functions perfectly fine on all Windows OSes.

It happens - I bet there are many software and hardware packages that
still do their job as originally intended from WAY back before
Windows for Workgroups 3.11... All the way through now. I bet there
are many more that don't because these external to Microsoft vendors
chose to create a product that was specific to the way a particular
component/function of a particular version of Windows worked... And
then - when the new version of Windows came out they decided not to
upgrade using the similar component in the next version of Windows or
provide further compatibility for their product...

*The businesses other than Microsoft decided* to not support their
products further or give their users the necessary functionality to
continue using the next version of an OS. They also abandoned (or
chose to never support) versions of the Mac OS, *nix, BeOS, and who
knows what else... But they *chose* - they were not forced to stop
providing further compatibility - they *chose* to allow the old
product to die so they could sell (and make money) off of a new
product. Were they 'forced' by any definition of the word - or did
they instead - take advantage of an opportunity presented to them?

Yes - 2d fits quite nicely - except you see Microsoft as some large
'force' controlling all this - when, in fact - all they did was come
out with a new version of an Operating system and those who created
the millions of products that ran on other Windows OSes before decide
(on their own) not to continue support and the majority of them make
NEW products for the NEW OS so they can make NEW money and probably
improve their product in most cases. They likely (in the better
cross-platform software) decided that same thing with previous
versions of Mac OS and *nix and other operating systems many times
before as well - and they will continue to do so as they want to...

Now - maybe you meant something from 1... 1 a (1)? It goes along
the same idea as my explanation above. Those creating the
hardware/software create it so they can either make a product for the
world to use because 'they want to' or they make the product so they
can earn a living.

Microsoft creating a new OS does not mean everyone else has to follow
suite. At some point - everyone could just say, "Bah - I need to do
this and this and OS X does all that - so I am switching..." Doesn't
mean that OS X won't someday become OS 11 (OS XI?) and leave those
people/manufacturers/hardware components - just means that said
hardware/software vendor or individual or business chose to use a
different set of items thinking stubbornly that things they have
created/bought now will always work - on all future renditions (5
years? 10 Years? 15 years? 20 years? Their lifetime?) of said
product line. They are inevitably wrong - but - that is *their
choice*.

Definition 1c maybe? "capacity to persuade or convince"... If one
can be convinced or persuaded not to support their product beyond a
certain point, then it is likely they just didn't want to in the
first place. If one can be convinced or persuaded to upgrade their
hardware - then they likely wanted to in the first place.

Why? Because if the status quo doesn't change - why should anything
else have to. If you are working just fine on your Pentium II 233MHz
computer with 64MB memory and you don't want to run/utilize any 'new'
products, etc - you don't *have to*. If something dies - you can
find someone with the know-how to fix it for you with all the money
you saved over the years not upgrading and hopefully put away
(knowing that all hardware wears out eventually) or all the spare
parts you bough just for that eventuality or with all the training
you went through so you would never need to change...

What is this thread about to me?
People unwilling to accept change or too weak-willed to do anything
about it/continue on their own path and looking for some mythical
individual/entity to shift the blame off themselves onto...

My paragraph stands...

If you are being 'forced' by anything - it is your choice of
lifestyle and interaction with others - I cannot see any other
'force' making you get Windows Vista. Hell - you don't even have
to use a Microsoft OS - no one is *forcing* you to do that.

Make your own choices in life - don't let others make them for you.

You choose what games to play, or are you being convinced or
persuaded by your friends?
You choose what software to utilize, or are you being convinced or
persuaded by your work environment?
You choose what hardware to utilize, or are you being convinced or
persuaded by your neighbors and friend (keeping up with the 'Jones'
syndrome...)?

You remind me of the bad side of one of those 'above the influence'
commercials...
http://www.abovetheinfluence.com/

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP


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