Re: Why I am Limited to about 35 Open Windows With 3GB Ram in New

Hi John,

I think you did almost everything correctly.
'almost', because of 2 things:

1.The counters use different scale, Handle Count defaults to 1, Working Set
to .00001 and so on, I'd prefer real numbers, but.. if you didn't change any
counter default scale I guess the numbers you posted are within excepted
limit.
2. With starting IE from command line - I was really after 2 IE processes,
one from command line, one by double click IE icon (so that there are 2
iexplore processes showing under task manager)

But.. all of the above doesn't really matter, I've tried to open multiple
tabs in IE and my computer while monitoring few things and I noticed that I
don't run out of GDI Handles or Handles or process virtual address space or
anything else I was measuring.. then it hit me - I've exhausted desktop
heap.

Have a look at this KB: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184802/ (scroll down
to Cause 2)
You can monitor your desktop heap with: http://tinyurl.com/ybdwhe - MS
Desktop Heap Monitor Version 8.1
(Check Desktop: (Default): RATE) - it's pretty easy to spot how it's
claiming up when more windows / tabs get opened.

I think you have 3 options:
1. Play (on your own risk, increase second SharedSection value) with
registry settings from the above KB (make it 8192 for a start).
2. Get second computer.
3. Get 64-bit OS. - not 100% sure but I think 'default' desktop heap is
bigger.

Good luck.

"John_061211" <John061211@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:705AD432-9FFE-4ED3-9397-9221351F6A9A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I accidently replied to another message, so will paste again below:

Mak,

When I used the command prompt to try to start more IE7 windows using
"start
iexplore", I got the same effect, could not open any more windows than if
I
tried to start IE7 by double clicking on the IE icon on the desktop.

I tried creating the graphs that you suggested in performance, and I think
I
did it correctly. I only needed to set the max scale to 1600 instead of
10000. The Handle Count curve was a horizontal line at about 1400. the
Working Set curve was a horizontal line at about 560. The Virtual Bytes
curve was a horizontal line at about 170. The % Processor Time curve
varied
with time up to about a max value of 54. The Pages/sec curve was at zero
most of the time.

There is a lot that I don't understand about all this. I think I
understand
Processor Time, but that is about it. I am an aerospace engineer, so use
computers a lot, but have not been trained in any of these details. It is
great to learn about anything that helps me use computers more
efficiently,
and about computers in general.

Let me know if I am doing something wrong or if you have any other
questions, etc. Perhaps I need to do this differently, or perhaps there
something else I need to check.

Regards,

John

"Mak" wrote:

I think you can find out what is happening John.
First, start your IE (single window or tab), then:

Start - run: perfmon {enter}

on the toolbar click on "+"
Under Performance object select "Process"
Under select counters from the list select "Handle Count"
Under select instances from the list select "iexplore"
Click add.
Add also "Virtual bytes" and "Working set" for "iexplore".
Right click somewhere on the graph, properties / graph tab. Under
vertical
scale, maximum, type 10000.

Now you can start opening your IE windows... When you can't do that
anymore,
go back to permon and check the numbers.
You either running out of handles (most likely) or out of virtual address
space per process (virtual bytes) wich is 2GiB by default.
Extra RAM won't help for any of those.

10000 handles per process is hardcoded in Windows XP, there used to be a
"fix" to increase this number to something like 16000, but I can't find
it
anymore. Whatever is set in the registry needs underlying file to work
properly with bigger number of handles, hence, I won't recommend changing
handle quota value without it.
In any case the solution to this problem is easy - just start second IE
process.

"John_061211" <John061211@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1B5C80AD-56EB-418E-A761-C0BC2123FD47@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks very much for all the information. Mak, I did not understand
your
replies that well, but it is is still helpful, thanks.

It would be interesting if someone else with 3GB or more of memory
tried
this, but it seems at this point that the problem is not a memory
limitation,
and it seems that others have run into this without resolution.
Perhaps
the
solution would be switching to Windows Vista, or perhaps that would
create
new problems.

Regarding my recent memory purchase, I think I will take the memory out
to
see if the machine runs any slower without this extra memory. If it
makes
no
difference, I may send it back for a refund, as the primary reason for
purchasing it was to solve this limitation on the number of windows I
could
open. Or maybe I will keep the extra memory if this is needed for
Windows
Vista, assuming it is worth the upgrade.

Thanks again for this information. This user community here is great.
Dell
support and also Crucial Technologies (Micron Technologies - the memory
maker) had no idea what was wrong. I think it is odd that they do not
understand this problem.

Another reason, by the way, that I use so many windows is that I have a
large screen to look at. I have a 24" LCD screen which seems to cause
me
want to have more applications or windows open at the same time.

Regards,

John


"Mak" wrote:

oh, forgot to mention.... if you're not up to session limit, but only
per
process, you can start separate IE process from command prompt via:
"start
iexplore" command.

"Mak" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OzeqUtZHHHA.1248@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
John, you might be running out of GDI Handles.

AFAIK in Xp it's set by default to 10,000 per process. (I've checked
mine
and it's set to 10,000, though I don't remember if I modified that
or
not)
You can fire up permon, object 'process' | counter 'handle count' |
process 'iexplore' and watch it rise... check the number after wich
you
can't open tabs anymore.
Also, system wide the number of hadles per session is limited to
about
65k
(theoretical limit I think).
Total system wide number of handles is also displayed in Task
Manager.


"John_061211" <John061211@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message
news:6345D3EF-09B8-41C3-A1F7-5A5A217C71E5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have a 6 month old Dell dual-processor Windows XP desktop PC that
is
very
fast. I have Windows XP Media Edition with Service Pack 2. I
noticed
I
was
limited to about 35 open windows (for example 35 IE7 windows - not
using
the
tab option in IE7) before apparently running out of memory when I
had
just
1GB of memory in the machine. I am working on many things at once
and
would
like to be able to open at least 50 windows on the machine.

I just added 2GB of memory (3GB total now) and although the
computer
recognizes the extra memory, I can not open any additional windows.
Is
there
some limitation in Windows XP on the maximum number of windows or
applications you can have open, or is there perhaps something wrong
with
the
memory that I installed? I call the memory manufacturer, and they
said
they
memory should be fine and that it is the correct memory for my
machine.
I
called Dell technical support and they don't have any clues. All
inputs
I
received suggest going from 1GB Ram to 3GB Ram should allow me to
have
a
lot
more windows open than I had before.

I suspect there is either a limitation in Windows XP or some
setting
that
I
need to change to allow it to make use of the additional memory
that I
have.
Otherwise it must be bad memory, or something wrong with other
hardware
components.

Thanks in advance for any help or comments on this problem.

--
John










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