Re: Boot Disk Failure Needs CD to Boot Windows (Imaging Vs Cloning

Paul:
My comments are inline...

"Chebi" <Chebi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:6DBC7279-8163-4561-B2AE-F954E9170EB3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anna: Thanks for your thourough response. I wish I had started this thread
under a different heading so as to help others with the same interest.

A couple of comments and further questions come to mind:

1- My apology regarding my mis-use of the terms "Movable" or "Removable"
drives. They all should refer to an external USB drive, and the one I have
in
mind is the Maxtor USB2 external 250 GB ULTRA ATA 133. And after reading
various threads and comments on the subject, I am inclined to go the
Imaging
Vs Cloning for my backups.

My goal is to backup my 60GB descktop drive (NTSF) and Laptop drive that
came partitioned ~45GB NTSF and 11GB FAT32 (Don't know why), both running
XP
SP2, on the same external USB drive

I assume your laptop contains a so-called "recovery" partition (the FAT32
one) and/or was created by the laptop's manufacturer to contain this or that
program. Leave it be, at least for the moment. Check your laptop's user
guide or with the manuf. to determine its contents. But don't modify or
delete the partition or any of its contents unless you're absolutely certain
it wouldn't cause future grief.

2- I recall reading in one of the threads that Acronis would convert FAT32
formats to NTSF, and am wondering if that would affect the restored
performace on the Laptop. Would the restored disk consist of two NTSF
drives
then or a single consolidated NTSF drive similar to the descktop? and does
it
matter at all? (Again if this might be the case when Cloning not Imaging
my
apology)

The resultant clone or disk image will retain the original file system.
There's no conversion involved affecting the file system currently on the
source disk. The only time this issue would arise would be if you would
clone the contents of an XP OS whose file system was NTFS onto a USB
external HDD that had been formatted FAT32 (as many of them are as they come
from the factory). In that case the resultant clone would retain the NTFS
file system of the source HDD.

3- With regards to verification of the integrity of the image on the USB
drive, would it be possible to reboot either computer off the USB drive
directly with its corresponding image after modifying the boot bios to do
so?
According to the litterature the drive is bootable if bios support
function
is available. (How do I find out?)

This is sort of a controversial issue. In our experience, working with
scores of USB external HDDs and a large variety of motherboards, we have
*never* been able to boot an XP OS from a USBEHD. And I have never directly
witnessed nor come across a fully documented & repeatable instance where
this capability was achieved. I must admit I get somewhat weary hearing or
reading the oft-cited "Yes, you can boot to a USB external hard drive if
your motherboard's BIOS supports this capability". All I can say is that
I've worked with many motherboards that presumably had this "capability",
but I've still never been able to boot an XP OS from a USBEHD.

But...

Having said all this, there have been reports that this capability has been
achieved. One of the more prominent ones is an article by Fred Langa at
http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticleSrc.jhtml?articleID=177102101

Also, I have another reference...
http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

(I haven't checked out these links lately but you may want to do so as well
as do a Google search on the subject.)

4- Is there an advantage for SATA Vs ATA? the model comes in these two
versions with a minor price difference. I inadvertently ordered the ATA
without knowing any better. Is it worthwhile switching?

Yes, there is a considerable advantage in using the SATA interface rather
than a PATA one with respect to the disk cloning process. Understand I'm
referring to a direct SATA to SATA interface; I'm *not* referring to an
external device where a SATA HDD would be used as a USB device. So if you
have a motherboard with SATA capability and the external enclosure you're
using supports a SATA to SATA connection, it would be most desirable to use
that type of interface for the disk cloning operation. There are two
significant advantages...
1. Data transfer rates (disk cloning) would be considerably faster since the
SATA HDD is treated as an internal HDD and as such, its performance is
substantially superior to a USB-connected HDD.
2. And perhaps the more important consideration...
The resultant clone *would* be bootable since the SATA HDD in that situation
is considered an *internal* HDD by the system notwithstanding that it's
physically outside the compter's case.

Our advice to most users who are in the market for an exterior enclosure is
to consider purchasing one that has this SATA-to-SATA interface capability
as long as their system supports SATA. Nearly all of these enclosures are
also equipped with a USB interface as well.

5- When restoring after a crash do you need to reformat the source drive
after using a bootable recovery disk, before restoring?

No. Presumably you would be using the Acronis so-called "Bootable Rescue
Media" CD that you had created from the Acronis program. Assuming the
original source HDD is non-defective (mechanically/electronically) it would
be recognized by the Acronis program on the bootable CD and recovery could
proceed.

6- According to the litterature, the USB Drive comes with "Backup4all" one
touch backup software allowing Full, Differential, Incremental and
*Mirror*
backups. Do you think I still need Acronis?

I have never worked with that program so I can't give you any input on it. I
guess the only way to tell is to work with it, yes?
Anna


Many thanks again.

Paul Chebi


"Anna" wrote:


"Chebi" <Chebi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:DD1624C6-E5AE-4B48-AF65-F5B893F1EE1D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anna: I am in the process of gearing up for an external USB drive
principally to image my HDD in case of a catastrphic incident. I have
been
following up with great interest your posts on the subject especially
your
stetp by step instructions for imaging and restoring the main drive. I
have a
few questions, however:

1- My computer XP SP2 came with two partitions and was wondering how to
handle this imaging process with Acronis . Do I need to image the two
paritions consecutively or would Acronis do that automatically? and
would
the
imaged destination movable drive be bootable on the source drive in
either
case? regardless of the imaging sequence?

2- Can you image two separate computers' drives (each with 2
partitions)
on
the same movable drive, and how would you manage retoring the two
(twin)
images to their repective source drives? If so do you need to partition
the
destination drive for each of the two source drives? and how would that
affect your answer to your step 7 of your instructions regarding
partition
deletion on the destination drive?

3- Could you treat the removable destination drive as a regular storage
for
various data files from two computers in addition to the images?

4-After imaging and/or cloning how could you verify you actually did
clone
or image on the movable drive? and could you safely restore to, say,
your
still working drive as a dry run to veryfy the process before you
really
need
and have to?

Thanks for your help in the matter
--
Paul Chebi


Paul:
1. Yes, the Acronis program has the capability of imaging all the
partitions
on one's HDD "in one fell swoop" as it were. In effect, you would be
creating a disk image of the entire disk which would include, of course,
all
the partitions present on the disk. Incidentally, the program does have
the
capability of creating disk images of *individual* partitions of a
multi-partitioned HDD.

2. Yes, you could use the same HDD to store the images of different
computers. I assume your reference to a "movable drive" refers to an
external HDD (USB or Firewire) but no matter; an internal HDD (presumably
secondary to one's primary boot drive) could also be used as the
recipient,
i.e., the destination drive, of the disk images.

You need not partition the destination drive in that situation. Merely
designating different file names for the backup archives (files) would be
sufficient. (Obviously you would name them in such a way as to identify
from
whence they came, right?)

With respect to your question re step 7 of the instructions - please note
that the information contained in that step referred to the disk-to-disk
cloning process - not the disk imaging process described in the second
section of the instructions. Recall that there are two basic backup
methods
employed by the ATI program - disk-to-disk cloning and disk imaging.

Up to this point I've interpreted your questions as they relate to the
disk
imaging process - *not* the disk cloning process. When you use the
Acronis
program to clone the entire contents of one HDD to another HDD only then
is
it necessary for the disk cloning process to delete all partitions on the
destination HDD. The Acronis program does not have the capability of
*cloning* individual partitions to another HDD. In that situation it's an
"all or nothing" proposition. As we've indicated, you *can* create disk
images of individual partitions.

3. Absolutely

4. If you used the disk cloning process and the recipient of the clone
was a
USB or Firewire external HDD, the only way to definitively determine that
a
clone was created would be to re:clone the contents of that external HDD
to
an internal HDD - either the original source drive or another internal
HDD.
Then, of course, you would boot to that drive to ensure all is well.

While you could, of course, peruse the cloned contents on the external
HDD
following the disk cloning operation, this would not ensure that a viable
clone had been created.

If the HDD in its USB or Firewire external enclosure is removable (it's
not
a commercial one-piece device nor are warranty issues involved), one
could
remove the HDD from its enclosure and install it (temporarily) as an
internal HDD in the PC (I'm assuming we're talking desktop PCs here) and
boot to it. Admittedly that would be an awkward methodology for most
users
but it is an option.

If, however, one had used another internal HDD as the recipient of the
clone, then it would be simply a matter of booting to that newly-cloned
drive to determine that all went well. Please note the cautionary note re
disconnecting the source HDD *before* booting to the destination HDD in
that
situation.

Insofar as disk images are concerned, you would need to undertake the
normal
recovery process to determine with assurance that a viable clone had been
created.

Our experience with the Acronis True Image program over nearly two years
has
been quite positive. It has proven very reliable with respect to both the
disk cloning & disk imaging backup & recovery processes. But it (nearly)
goes without saying that using either process you must begin with a
bootable
operating system that's completely functional and without significant
problems. If you clone garbage, garbage is what you'll get. I point that
out
because it's amazing how many users we come across that somehow have the
idea that disk cloning (or disk imaging) will somehow remedy whatever
problems they were having with their system.
Anna





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Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT-True Image Backup
    ... Make sure the USB drives file system is NTFS and not FAT32.. ... Jaymon is correct in that the disk image you create and save to the D: ... partition of your USB external HDD will have no effect on the other ... Step-by-Step Instructions for Using the Acronis True Image Program to Backup ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)
  • Re: OT-True Image Backup
    ... Make sure the USB drives file system is NTFS and not FAT32.. ... Jaymon is correct in that the disk image you create and save to the D: ... partition of your USB external HDD will have no effect on the other ... Since the disk images you will be creating (at least the initial backup ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)
  • Re: Sticky Computer Problem:
    ... I can't recommend any of the preassembled external drives. ... can take to back up the entire contents of one's day-to-day working HDD, ... Creating disk images ... can be either a USB or Firewire or SATA external HDD. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Clone, ghost, migrate or image?
    ... operated temporarily in an external enclosure, then swap the drives. ... Windows install hard disk with the machine, ... all practical purposes your new HDD will be a duplicate of your current HDD. ... enclosure specifically designed for 2 1/2" hard drives. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)
  • Re: Replacing Notebook Hard Drive
    ... both the disk cloning & disk imaging capabilities of the ATI program. ... Step-by-Step Instructions for Using the Acronis True Image Program to Backup ... can take to back up the entire contents of one's day-to-day working HDD, ... With both hard drives connected, ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware)