Re: Valid Product Keys for Windows XP SP2 Professional Volume License Edition

Gregg Hill wrote:
"Alias" <aka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:ukd4M$XBHHA.996@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Gregg Hill wrote:
Alias,

I did not respond because I did not see that part in your post. I thought I had read it all. OK, for your sake regarding this portion, I'll respond.

SNIP
I don't advocate stealing one dime from anyone. I do advocate fair use in regards to software. You think they are both stealing and this is where we disagree.


Please tell me what you consider to be stealing. I loosely define it as taking something from someone without permission or compensation. A thief who breaks into your home and steals your TV would likely think it is "fair use" for him, too, because you have so much more money than he has. An ethical and moral person would realize that just because you have more money than the guy breaking into your house, it is still wrong for him to do so. As I stated before, if you steal (take without permission or compenstation) one apple, or the whole orchard, you have still stolen. I'll bet that every thief, rapist, and murderer in prison thinks they were justified in what they did.

You can rationalize all you want, but if you do that in this case, you break the End User License Agreement, regardless of whether or not it is legally binding in your country. It is an agreement between the seller and the END USER, YOU, and if you violate it, you are stealing, plain and simple.


I compared breaking the EULA to breaking laws like prohibition, slavery, marijuana, etc. and you had no comment.


Yes, I did, it was near the bottom of the last post. By the way, your analogy to Prohibition is incorrect. The alcohol manufacturers were not the ones restricting access to their own product. The alcohol manufacturers never said we could buy a bottle of booze but had to consume it ourselves without sharing it. The government was trying to tell us we could not consume alcohol. The same thing goes for marijuana. It is not the drug smugglers and dealers who are asking you not to share their product.

In the case of this thread, the manufacturer has an agreement between itself and its end users only to use the software on one computer per purchased license. That is not even remotely close to your off-base arguments.

You compare the CHOICE of whether or not to use software and people being FORCED into slavery? And you riduculed ME for bad analogies? Give me a break!




If everyone lock steps to Microsoft's rules not only will they not change, Microsoft will believe everyone agrees with them.


Trust me, Microsoft knows that people disagree with them, and the massive pirating by those people who disagree with them has led directly to the anti-piracy measures in their software today. You (pirates) have brought this upon yourselves by your dishonesty, lack of morals, and lack of ethics.




I, too, have been poor, much poorer than you can even imagine and did not steal either, even though I would not have had any serious legal consequences because, like you, I don't think it's right to take something that belongs to someone else.


Good for you. I commend you for not stealing when you were poor. However, you advocate doing it now, but you call it "fair use." Fair to whom? Only to software pirates. Something that is "fair" benefits both parties.




See the difference?



No, I don't see the difference,

What a surprise.

because there is none. You just stated that
again when you said, "I don't think it's right to take something that belongs to someone else."

Um, how can I take something I already have?

In the case of Microsoft's XP software, there is an END USER License Agreement, a document that binds the manufacturer and the END USER, YOU, to an agreement before you use their software. This agreement is between YOU and the manufacturer, regardless of the country in which you live, or the laws of that country. That agreement gives you permission to install the software on ONE computer. If you violate the terms of that agreement, and you install the software on multiple computers, YOU have just taken "something that belongs to someone else,"

No, can't take something I already have and contract disputes are not crimes.

which is the license for a single use of the product. YOU have been saying that it is OK to do that throughout this entire thread, and you call it "fair use." Yes, you DO advocate taking something that does not belong to you...a license to use the software.

Gregg

I already have the license. Contract disputes from my not agreeing but installing anyway, is not, I'm afraid, stealing.

Alias







Alias




"Alias" <aka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:eG0X%23UPBHHA.1220@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Gregg Hill wrote:
You are absolutely beyond hope if you cannot comprehend it now. I am done with you.

Gregg
Promises, promises.

How come you didn't see fit to reply to this?:

You obviously was also raised with a Christian silver spoon in your mouth and have no idea what it's like to be poor. To further ruffle your moral feathers, in Spain, stealing anything worth less than 400 euros is not considered a crime. In other words, if you walk into a store here and steal a 300 euro TV, the worst that can happen to you is a fine and, if you're poor, you claim insolvency and pay nothing and do no time.

You, I suspect, would like to go back to the times when, in England, stealing was punishable by hanging and being poor was illegal and, if caught being poor, was sent to the "poor house" to work for cruel.

To get back to your recently upgraded country, laws that people don't agree to are traditionally broken in order to change them:

Prohibition

Segregation of blacks

Revolutionary War

Slavery

Marijuana.

Etc.

Using your "high moral" logic, blacks would still be slaves, no one could drink alcohol, the USA would still be a colony of England and Texas could still give you life for one joint.

Alias
I certainly hope you do not equate any of the above with using software on a computer, which is a total luxury.

My logic would in no way condone slavery. While I do not have faith in God, the Bible still has **tremendous** value in its teachings, such as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Even though I do not have faith in God, I do realize that it isn't rocket science to know that you should treat people as you would want them to treat you. If you do not want to be owned, abused, whipped, or killed, then you should not own, abuse, whip, or kill someone else. (Yes, that is a huge over-simplification of slavery, but the discussion is not about that travesty in our history). The principal applies to software. If you don't want people stealing from you, don't steal from people (or from Microsoft).

I am adamantly against alcohol because of the damage I have seen it do to my friends and to others, but I would not say that no one can drink it. It just enrages me that some piece of garbage kills an entire family with his car because he wanted to drink a beer. That beer was more valuable to him than a human life, and that is just plain twisted.

The US would not be a colony of England, because when those people left England to come here and start a new life, the British government had no right to come here and force them to obey the laws of Britain. We had every right to kick their butts out of here. Of course, the ones who came here had no right to screw the Indians, but that is a whole other thread.

And as for getting life for one joint, man, I hope not, or our ex-toking(?) President would be in deep doo-doo! Sorry, GW, that just slipped out!

I do not look at our planet as you do, with divisional lines drawn on a map. That only leads to people hating each other just because the other guy lives on a different piece of dirt, or worships a different deity. I hate to break the news to you, but you are a human first, then a person of a certain country and/or religion, or lack thereof. If all lines on all maps got erased, and all religions ceased to exist, all you would have left is a bunch of humans living on a big wet rock in space. You can change your country, you can change your religion, but you cannot change the fact that you are a human being. Look at it that way and you see the fallacy of war, stealing from other people, hating your neighbor because he is Muslim or she is Christian, etc.

Is it OK with you if I do not respond any further and actually spend my time doing some work, or having fun with my wife? In closing, moral values are something you choose. I choose to keep mine where they are and treat people as I would have them treat me.

Take care, Alias!

Gregg


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