Re: Data corruption when transfering across network?

In article <ofvhg154susv86p74q7iff2lonrptqdm5t@xxxxxxx>,
cquirkenews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) says...

> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:20:08 -0400, ByTor <ByTor@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >In article <gn4fg1lftiejfh7l965ndvdfiosjfdhdvg@xxxxxxx>,
> >cquirkenews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) says...
> >> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:48:05 -0400, ByTor <ByTor@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >cquirkenews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) says...
> >> >> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:10:15 -0400, ByTor wrote:
>
> >> >> >Bottom line, no matter if they are connected to either devices one
> >> >> >particular machine recieves tranfered data corrupted....
>
> Ah, I missed that - you say it's always the same PC that receives data
> that is corrupted? That suggests something on that PC... the data may
> have been OK as it entered the LAN card, but longer be OK by the time
> it hits the disk surface.

Yes, same PC, same Win2K install..............I've actually tried
writing it to a different HD on the machine... 1 HD is connected to the
MB IDE channel (OS drive only) and 2 HD's connected to a controller card
(promise UltraTX2) thinking maybe corrupted PT or something but same
thing happened in all instances.....Each PT on the drives connected to
the controller are split in 3 PT's each for different data storage.

> >As far as this particular Win2K install, yes, it is definately driven
> >harder than the remaining 3 OS's........More installs, etc.
>
> That wasn't what I was thinking of - I was thinking at a lower level
> of abstraction, i.e. wires, volts and microseconds.
>
> For example, one OS may run HDs in PIO mode, while another may run in
> a faster UDMA mode. Flaky chipsets may mediate poorly between
> multiple busmastering DMS devices, such as HD vs. LAN card, and that
> may be driver dependent too. One OS may have a genuine CPU idle loop
> that lets the processor cool down and draw less current, where another
> may not - and draw enough current to cause marginally-failing
> motherboard capacitors to smudge a few rise times.
>
> Digital systems are made of analog parts, and at the analog level, all
> it takes is the front edge of a square wave signal transition to take
> slightly too long, and you have a bit error right there.

Very interesting points you are making here, I will check settings I'm
sure all modes are the same.....good point though, I did at one time
check PIO modes on my CDROMS as burning sucks the life out of this
machine......All my burners on this machine are connected to a Siig card
and work astronomically when burning, wouldn't know I was
burning....Wish I had another one.

>
> >I have 4 OS's on one drive......Win2K-WinXP-WinXP-Win2K....All in that
> >order on all hidden primary partitions using a boot manager.....The
> >first Win2K is the problematic one......The remaining three accept
> >transfers perfectly......Maybe a particular software I'm using? That
> >would be hard to isolate.
>
> The first and last Win2000; are they precisely the same version, with
> same drivers?

Yes..........

> Drill down to the difference between them.

Will check.........

> Can each installation see the others' HDs? Were any installations "cloned"
> from another, so that non-unique SIDs might be a problem?

Yes all drives & partitions are seen perfectly......All installs were
isolated, all to C's, no clones.....I use BootMagic for booting & hiding
each OS from each other.....Each OS is on a primary partition with a
"C" drive letter.

>
> Are you on the Internet while all this is going on?

Yes..............High speed cable.

>
> Does the afflicted Win2000 have different av? Are there any
> ambiguities between how other systesm see these installations, i.e.
> where a remote PC may think it's dealing with installation 4 when it's
> really dealing with installation 1?

As mentioned above, each OS is independently isolated, shares are not
confused.......

>
> Has the HD ever had any bad clusters, in any installation? Does the
> AutoChk / ChkDsk history show any code files that were "fixed"? Did
> the av ever have to "clean" any code files?

No bad clusters...........

>
> >All drivers are the same in the case of the 2K's.........The XP's were a
> >little stupid with a few but not a major issue.
>
> Uhh... cummer gain?

I allowed XP's native driver for my controller card once and the 3rd
partition on a particular drive did not appear in "My Computer"....When
I used the management section it reported it as "free space?" Could not
access the data.........I forced the Manufacturer's original drivers and
the partition magically appeared with all data accessible....Very wierd
thing, but only real issue I had with XP...........

> >This particular board is a ASUS A7V8X-LA with VIA KM400A Chipset....
>
> Bingo! Well, Google(KM499A corruption) seems to think so...
>
> Obscure and unrelated smoke on the horizon:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-x@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/msg36965.html
>
> Closer to home...
>
> http://battleangel.org/blog/item/1200
>
> VIA blames AMD for this one...
>
> http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=3&FCat=5
>
> <paste>
>
> From AMD: "An issue has been identified that could result in the
> corruption of video data shared between AGP The Accelerated Graphics
> Port is a dedicated bus for graphics cards that enables high
> performance 3D graphics capabilities on PCs. AGP bypasses the PCI bus
> and directly pipelines between the main memory and graphics
> controller. graphics adapters and AMD Athlon? or AMD Duron? family
> processors, including the AMD Athlon? MP, mobile Athlon? 4, and AMD
> Athlon? XP processors, when running Microsoft Windows®2000
> Professional, Windows®2000 Server, or Windows®2000 Advanced Server.
> This issue is independent of system chipset..."
>
> </paste>
>
> These folks don't sound happy either...
>
> http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Apr/bch20030411019560.htm
>
> Is the grass greener on the other side?
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2005/07/mail2.html
>
> Gah, I'm tired of looking at this stuff :-/

Very, very interesting reading......Especially the AGP portitons, WOW, I
actually was having an issue with setting the AGP speed on this machine
to 4X after installing an "All In Wonder 2006" AGP card.......I had an
old 7500 card but removed all the drivers first, but still had
issues.....I've since done a clean install and all works perfectly at 4X
speed.....What a pain it was my my older install, it appeared that after
I re-installed the "miniport" drivers I was allowed to flex the speed
and keep it at 4X...............As for the old 7500 I placed that in the
problem machine & all appears to be well.......I don't like onboard
graphics that comes with the new machines.......Tis why I usually build
my own, but the price on this HP I could not resist...........

> >I have a Linksys BEFSR41 Router(brand new) and a Linksys EZXS88W 10/100
> >8-port Workgroup Switch...
>
> Cool, those sound OK. How long is the longest cable run? Any cable
> interconnects or damage, e.g. dog-chews, roof-rats, door-kinks?
>
> >...My main machine here & the HP are
> >connected to the router ports 1 & 2.....port 4 is the uplink port to my
> >workstation to feed the remaining 4 machines.......
>
> You could try swapping cables around, or trying PC 1 where PC 3
> usually goes, etc. as brute-force way of checking cable issues.
>
> >I've tried switching/removing/replacing wires in various different
> >configurations to no avail(and removing some puters to answer above
> >question).....Still boils down to the same issue....I even connected all
> >machines to the 8-port and still same corruption on said OS..........
>
> OK, pointing away from cables then. A thought: Do all these have the
> LAN card in the same PCI socket? Same IRQ sharing on all systems and
> all OSs? Could be a tie-breaker there.

Interesting point at the end here.....Will look.

>
> >My main machine is an ASUS A7M266 AMD761 chipset and had
> >quadruple the amount of software & hardware on it and it never gave me
> >this kind of issue...
>
> If I had to go AMD, I'd want AMD or nForce chipset. Trouble is, most
> recent "AMD" chipsets have AMD shirt, VIA pants.

Yes, why they lost the 761 chipset is beyond me....I believe the
A7M266-D was the last of its kind..............

>
> >Amazing that I've tackled much heavier issues than this and
> >can't yet figure this one.............
>
> When that happens, it's uaually because the fault is at an abstraction
> layer or few lower than the one your logic is walking around on.
>
> This smells like a 1-in-a-billion bit-flip flakiness to me :-(
>

Yes, agreed I will keep you posted.....This is getting more interesting
by the minute............... ;0)

.

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