Re: !!!Do not load SP2!!!

Kerry -

An update. The printer is back. I was right, the printer problem was a
fallout of changing BIOS. The new BIOS was defaulted to turn parallel port
OFF. when I turned it back on (and reinstalled the printer drivers since I
didn't know which address it was originally set for in the old BIOS) the
printer came back.

Additional troubleshooting data. The only driver that was out of date was
the Intel Network driver. I installed the latest version with no joy. Then
I went into msconfig and set it for selective startup. I turned off
EVERYTHING and still the system will not come back from a shutdown. So it
would seem that, as I originally said, it is not a driver or hardware
problem. It is a primitive problem in SP2 with my MB, CPU or chipset. Given
that the MB is ASUS, a major manufacturer, and the CPU and chipset are both
Intel, it would seem that some level of compatibility testing could have been
done. I have an e-mail into ASUS. Maybe tomorrow I will try a debug startup
so I can see where the system hangs. There are no significant events in the
system event log.

I'm about out of ideas.


--
Thanks for any help,

Al



"Kerry Brown" wrote:

> "Al Waschka" <AlWaschka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:2C9EA3C6-3DC6-4F6F-84C7-BA5F5566967D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > We obviously have different perspectives. I am a Microsoft customer, and
> > you
> > are on the vendor/supplier side of the line. I didn't say that no one
> > should
> > come out with something that isn't compatible with my computer, only that
> > Microsoft should not put out service packs (and hypoe them as being next
> > to
> > essential) without letting people know what the compatibility issues are.
> > Yeah, its hard, but they make a pile of money off of people like me who
> > buy
> > their products (and sell them in products to my customers).
> >
> >
> > That aside, I appreciate your assistance and I have now tried almost
> > everything you suggested. Thanks for the tip on my daughter's machine, by
> > the way, I will pass that on to her. I will make sure I have all the
> > latest
> > drivers for the motherboard. That is really all there is. It is an all
> > on
> > board solution so there are no video cards, etc. I have the latest
> > printer
> > driver and I can't get it to load. The printer is an HP Photosmart 1215.
> > It
> > tries to load on a DOT4 port, but the install can't find the printer. I
> > suspect that the SP2 problem is related to the loss of connectivity with
> > the
> > DOT4 port but I haven't found anything on MS.com KB, yet.
> >
> > Kerry, again, thanks - It is because of people like you who will help
> > people
> > like me (difficult though we may be) that Microsoft can continue to sell
> > the
> > products they develop.
> >
> > Al
> >
>
> Your welcome.
>
> I have had lots of issues with HP USB printers on all versions of Windows. I
> have actually quit selling them because of support issues. It was costing me
> too much money reinstalling them when customers botched the install. They
> are very finicky. Usually you have to uninstall everything to do with the
> printer then hunt down all the files and registry entries that the uninstall
> doesn't delete. HP's uninstall programs are almost as useless as Norton's.
> Once it's completely clean then install it exactly according to their
> directions. One step out of order and it usually doesn't work and you have
> to do the whole uninstall again. It's particularly important to figure out
> exactly where in the process that the printer needs to be plugged into the
> computer's USB port. They are not consistent. With some printers it's part
> way through the install with other's it's after the install.
>
> Kerry
>
> >
> > "Kerry Brown" wrote:
> >
> >> "Al Waschka" <AlWaschka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:5E245C7F-0294-4391-B9E7-6BF9A5FF77C0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > OK, I cleared the CMOS memory, reloaded defaults, and set the
> >> > date/time.
> >> > Same problem.
> >> >
> >> > "Rant mode ON"
> >> >
> >> > While I understand your philosophical comments about troubleshooting (I
> >> > am
> >> > an MSEE with 35 years in the design of hardware, firmware, software and
> >> > systems), that is only one perspective. In my case, it was the
> >> > addition
> >> > of
> >> > SP2 that caused the original problem. I had a working configuration
> >> > with
> >> > all
> >> > hardware supported and everything was fine until I installed SP2. All
> >> > this
> >> > other stuff (printers not working, etc.) was fallout from installing
> >> > SP2
> >> > or
> >> > from changing the BIOS to try to get compatible with SP2. And don't
> >> > forget
> >> > that I had EXACTLY the same problem with the older currently working
> >> > configuration several months back. When I upgraded it to SP2, it
> >> > started
> >> > halting during startup exactly like the new configuration does now. I
> >> > bought
> >> > a new HD, loaded it up, moved over to it and that is the configuration
> >> > that
> >> > is not working now, again after installing SP2. I rebuilt the old HD
> >> > up
> >> > to
> >> > just before SP2, turned off updates and now it is running. I have no
> >> > doubt
> >> > that if I installed SP2, it would also crash.
> >> >
> >> > As to your comment that I may have hardware or software that is not
> >> > compatible with SP2, I can't imagine that it should be necessary to go
> >> > back
> >> > to a clean pre-SPx boot configuration, add SP-x, then reload every
> >> > piece
> >> > of
> >> > software and hardware (until the system stops working) to find
> >> > non-compatible
> >> > hardware and software everytime MS comes out with a SP. They should be
> >> > testing SPs to determine what the the SP confoguration doesn't support
> >> > that
> >> > the pre-SP configuration did, and they should notify users so that they
> >> > can
> >> > make an intelligent decision as to whether or not to install a SP. I
> >> > guess I
> >> > am going to have to reload windows, upgrade to just before SP2 and then
> >> > strop
> >> > installing upgrades. Thats a crappy way to run a business.
> >> >
> >> > I just got a phone call from my daughter. Her computer (HP Notebook)
> >> > had
> >> > been in for repair. She reloaded it and it was working fine. She
> >> > started
> >> > "upgrading" it with MS updates, and after SP2 somehow her WLAN was
> >> > indicating
> >> > low signal and couldn't stay logged on. She wiped it slick again and
> >> > reloaded to just before SP2 and everything is fine again.
> >> >
> >> > I rest my case.....
> >> >
> >> > "RANT mode off"
> >> >
> >> > Regardless, Kerry, thanks for trying to help. I appreciate your
> >> > efforts,
> >> > but I'm becoming convinced that this is an inherent problem with SP2
> >> > that
> >> > I
> >> > will not be able to fix.
> >> >
> >> > Al
> >> >
> >>
> >> The HP laptop problem has a known fix that's quite easy to find. I'm
> >> suprised the repair shop didn't know about it. Do a google search for HP
> >> XP
> >> SP2 WLAN.
> >>
> >> There is no possible way Microsoft could test every possible combination
> >> of
> >> hardware and software. They have a section of their web site dedicated to
> >> installing SP2 with many helpful troubleshooting tips.
> >>
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?&pr=windowsxpsp2
> >>
> >> I have done several hundred installs of SP2 and only seen one computer
> >> that
> >> was not compatible. I have seen a few USB devices that aren't compatible.
> >> I
> >> have seen lot's of software including software from Microsoft that is not
> >> compatible. If you don't figure out what is causing the problem you are
> >> stuck with your computer as it is now. You may be locked out of future
> >> updates as they may require SP2. That decision is up to you. Personally I
> >> think the security improvements are worth the effort to get it working.
> >>
> >> Rant mode on (it's a rant not a flame)
> >>
> >> With your experience you must know the logistics involved with testing
> >> such
> >> a varied and large installed base. You also must have developed a
> >> methodolgy
> >> of testing when something goes wrong. It is common for upgrades to cause
> >> problems with previously working systems whether the upgrade is hardware,
> >> firmware or software. An upgrade changes things by it's very nature. What
> >> you are saying is that once you purchase a computer no one should ever
> >> come
> >> out with something that won't work on it. That is unrealistic. And yes it
> >> sometimes comes down to a clean install of Windows, then SP2, then
> >> drivers
> >> and programs to find the incompatibilty. That is a last resort. I
> >> suggested
> >> a couple of other steps first. In any case your argument about doing a
> >> clean
> >> install, then rebuilding the system, then installing SP2 is clearly
> >> backwards and will only get you to the same place that doesn't work every
> >> time.
> >>
> >> Rant mode off
> >>
> >> Like I said earlier I believe the increased security of SP2 is worth the
> >> effort but it's your computer. I have several paying customers who think
> >> likewise so you are not alone. They are of the opinion that they upgrade
> >> their systems every few years anyway so the next upgrade will solve the
> >> problem. For them the cost of troubleshooting the current working systems
> >> isn't worth it. As long as you have a good firewall in place and practice
> >> safe computing SP2 isn't essential.
> >>
> >> Kerry
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Kerry Brown" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Al Waschka" <AlWaschka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> news:48C63CAC-BBFF-4EA2-87DC-5264CD593E0D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > Oh,yeah....
> >> >> > Wouldn't the fact that loading from one partition "repairs" a load
> >> >> > from
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > different partition indicate that some driver or dll or whatever
> >> >> > isn't
> >> >> > getting loaded into memory by the defective partition and survives a
> >> >> > restart
> >> >> > but not a cold boot? And this is not a random occurrence. I had
> >> >> > exactly
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > same problem (symptoms-wise) a few months ago. It came back,
> >> >> > exactly
> >> >> > like
> >> >> > before, when I "upgraded" to SP2.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> To find out what is causing the problem you have to eliminate the
> >> >> simple,
> >> >> obvious things first. Booting into a working install of Windows may
> >> >> initialise some hardware that is not happening on the other install
> >> >> with
> >> >> SP2. If the installs were exactly the same except for SP2 then I would
> >> >> suspect SP2. The installs are not exactly the same. You mentioned that
> >> >> some
> >> >> time elapsed, printers were installed etc. Troubleshooting is a time
> >> >> consuming process with few if any shortcuts. Test for the problem
> >> >> after
> >> >> each
> >> >> change. Start with the simplest steps first. 1) Reset the CMOS. Test
> >> >> for
> >> >> the
> >> >> problem. 2) disconnect the printer that had problems and remove it's
> >> >> drivers
> >> >> Test for the problem. 3) download and install the latest drivers for
> >> >> all
> >> >> your other hardware. Test for the problem, and so on and so on until
> >> >> it's
> >> >> solved. It may very well end up that something, hardware or software,
> >> >> is
> >> >> not
> >> >> compatible with SP2. Until you eliminate all the other possibilities
> >> >> you'll
> >> >> never know.
> >> >>
> >> >> Kerry
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > "Kerry Brown" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Al Waschka" <AlWaschka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:345B9EBC-09CC-49D3-823E-A673F1ECF713@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> > My defective SP2 installation is on Drive0
> >> >> >> > My working pre-SP2 installation is on Drive1
> >> >> >> > When 0 will not start, if I switch boot device in CMOS to 1,
> >> >> >> > windows
> >> >> >> > comes
> >> >> >> > up, as expected.
> >> >> >> > If I then switch back to 0, IT WORKS!
> >> >> >> > But then, if I cycle power, i.e. shutdown followed by startup, it
> >> >> >> > hangs
> >> >> >> > again.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. :-) Did you reset
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> CMOS
> >> >> >> via the jumper on the motherboard after flashing the BIOS? Failure
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> do
> >> >> >> this can sometimes cause erratic results like you are describing.
> >> >> >> This
> >> >> >> may
> >> >> >> not solve the problem but it eliminates one possible cause.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Kerry
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
.

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