Re: problem

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I don't disagree with you but , if you are trying to tell me that Microsoft
can't afford to have SOME not many but some english speaking tech people for
there English countries , Well then they shouldn't be in the business , Oh
here we go again , If you don't like it , then don't use Microsoft , PLEASE !
This is not the point , the point is , all we are saying is have SOME english
american , canadian or UK person for us english speaking people , Is that to
much to ask ??

"Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:

> You have to know how business and commerce work.. no business owner can sell
> a product and just put the money in a vault.. that is not how it works..
>
> There is this simplistic view around that companies making millions keep it
> all for themselves.. without shareholders, how long do you think that
> companies like Microsoft would survive.. they are not selling fizzy drinks
> from a makeshift stand in the front yard on a bright summer day.. they have
> a responsibility to the staff, the shareholders, the customers, all who have
> invested cash into the service.. buildings and machinery have to
> maintained.. all kinds of overheads are incurred.. the same goes for any
> company..
>
> If anybody wants to see Microsoft go down, then let them make sure that all
> American employees have another job to go to.. preferably a job that pays
> the same so that they won't have to do the un-American thing and drop their
> living standards.. remember also all of the computer users who would get no
> support at all.. there would be no MS newsgroups anymore, because there
> would be nobody to maintain them and the hosting servers would be gone.. the
> impact on US society would be catastrophic.. it would spread globally and if
> you don't think that what happens across the other side of the world affects
> you, then you need to get your head out of wherever you keep it.. the US is
> as reliant on the rest of the world as much as anybody, whether you like it
> or not..
>
> Bill Gates gives millions to charity, promotes education in schools, works
> with other industry to give people a better life.. of course, he is out to
> make money.. aren't we all?what a Windows user at home sees is but a drop in
> the ocean.. sit in front of your high definition TV and avoid any
> educational programmes if you will, but the technology that keeps you amused
> is tied in with the technology that Microsoft is part..
>
> --
> Mike Hall
> MVP - Windows Shell/user
>
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "Johnnyboy" <Johnnyboy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:43073D50-F13A-446B-BAF8-A919CF9892CB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >I agree Microsoft is getting rip off from privacy user's but , If you
> >expect
> > me to feel sorry for a company that is making million of million of
> > dollars
> > for there share holders and even Bill Gates himself is worth how much ?
> > last
> > time I heard this guy has millions and what , Microsoft can't come out
> > with a
> > better way to provide tech support for there legitimate customers , then
> > there is something wrong with the system , The way I see is we live in a
> > system that is run by greed and corruption , the more money they make ,
> > the
> > stronger greed and corruption become , We as honest good hearted people
> > can
> > only do is learn to live with it until that big day comes when it will all
> > fall apart and believe me it will fall apart , What really counts is ,
> > what
> > side of the fence will you be on ?
> >
> > "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
> >
> >> RedWagon
> >>
> >> Outsourcing support is a difficult issue all around.. I agree that
> >> conversing with somebody whose first language is not English is not
> >> always
> >> easy.. on top of that there are bound to be problems with cultural
> >> differences in as much as their responses to each other could be
> >> misinterpreted by somebody from another culture.. an example, albeit a
> >> simple one, is the difference between a New Yorker, who on answering a
> >> phone
> >> call might respond with the exchange and number that is being called,
> >> Plaza
> >> 579 for instance, where somebody in Madrid, Spain would use the Spanish
> >> equivalent of 'talk to me'..
> >>
> >> The cost consideration is also difficult.. Microsoft is the manufacturer
> >> and
> >> vendor of over 80 products that are sold globally.. the support and
> >> resources that make these products what they are is the sum total of a
> >> considerable range of ideas and talents that could not realistically be
> >> recruited just from Redmond, Wa or from the entire US continent.. all of
> >> the
> >> product line is produced in many languages.. computer users expect new
> >> versions like they expect a new Mustang model every year, and it had
> >> better
> >> be worth it or people get mad and stomp their feet..
> >>
> >> If you were to go around all of the departments in all of the countries,
> >> you
> >> would be left wondering how they manage to produce stuff so cheap!!!!!
> >> Take
> >> into account also that nearly half the world are maybe using pirated
> >> versions, and that Microsoft get nothing off these users at all, and you
> >> could end up feeling sorry for them..
> >>
> >> In any manufacturing industry, cost of the product to the customer is
> >> determined by adding up all of the production costs initially, adding
> >> some
> >> on to cover for the inevitable increase in cost of materials bought in
> >> from
> >> outside the company for the goods to be made after the initial batch, and
> >> then setting a price on the basis that at least xxxx thousand units will
> >> be
> >> sold.. it is a minefield.. supposing that when Lomghorn is released some
> >> time next year, most refuse to upgrade immediately.. no sales, no pay, no
> >> more R&D, thousands being laid off work, no support structure.. nothing..
> >> Microsoft reserves will have to keep the show going until sales are
> >> made..
> >> and those reserves will have to be built up again for the next time..
> >>
> >> So, why is support being outsourced?.. essentially because it is a
> >> necessary
> >> evil that doesn't contribute to manufacturing at all.. it is a money
> >> drain..
> >> one also has to consider that the company in India or wherever, has given
> >> Microsoft a service level agreement to which they may not always adhere..
> >> this is the point at which Microsoft customers seeking support will
> >> suffer
> >> and duly complain as is their right.. but Microsoft are also victims if
> >> the
> >> service level agreement is short changed..
> >>
> >> I could as easily be talking about General Motors, who are in dire
> >> straights
> >> presently.. very sad..
> >>
> >> The simple answer is that we all expect too much for too little..
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mike Hall
> >> MVP - Windows Shell/user
> >>
> >> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "REDWAGON" <REDWAGON@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:F33AC084-9925-45A9-9C22-0D2ADE3EEC8B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Hey "Piece" Mike---First--I'm not the only one that thinks "Out
> >> > Sourcing"
> >> > American jobs is a good idea. That happens to be my personal opinion,
> >> > which
> >> > may be different than yours. Second: I have contacted Microsoft on
> >> > several
> >> > occasions because of a pretty difficult problem I had, and got a tech
> >> > from
> >> > India. Now I think I am about a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10 as far as MS
> >> > Win
> >> > XP,
> >> > MS 2000, Win98 & 95 are concerned and after talking to the other techs
> >> > from
> >> > India I very soon found out that I was way ahead of them from the
> >> > "gi-go"
> >> > let
> >> > alone trying to understand their broken type English. I very politely
> >> > asked
> >> > them to slow down their speech and that did help a little.
> >> >
> >> > Third: When I read a persons post on this group, it doesn't take to
> >> > much
> >> > assuming to figure out how much they know generally, after asking them
> >> > just a
> >> > few questions in a reply post. For that reason and for those persons, I
> >> > just
> >> > personally think it would be better to give them a very direct possible
> >> > solution rather than have them go into the operating system and try and
> >> > do
> >> > all these more complicated things that come pretty easy for you and a
> >> > lot
> >> > of
> >> > others. I feel that in most instances that just gets them in more
> >> > trouble.
> >> >
> >> > No hard feelings Mike. I have read many of your post on this group and
> >> > have
> >> > found you to be extremely helpful. I just got a little frustrated about
> >> > the
> >> > "Out Sourcing" deal (And I think that's my American right) and still
> >> > feel
> >> > like Microsoft could screen their help in India a little better so that
> >> > guys
> >> > like me and the one that started this particular post could under stand
> >> > them
> >> > better. AND----Do something better about the "pat" answers they usually
> >> > give
> >> > out.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers, and keep up your good work. I just "WISH" I had enough $$$ to
> >> > start
> >> > a helpdesk web site (Here in the good old USA) as you so suggested. But
> >> > for
> >> > the time being I will just have to sign in on news groups like this one
> >> > and
> >> > hopefully learn more and very possibly be able to help someone at the
> >> > same
> >> > time.
> >> >
> >> > Redwagon.....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> So put your money where your mouth is and start a helpdesk, offer your
> >> >> services to Microsoft, and give the American people what you think
> >> >> they
> >> >> deserve.. and when you ask for money to cover the cost of any advice
> >> >> given,
> >> >> don't expect clean suggestions from all of them..
> >> >>
> >> >> US citizens want something for nothing and are no different to anybody
> >> >> else
> >> >> in that respect, but in this life, we get what we are prepared to pay
> >> >> for..
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Mike Hall
> >> >> MVP - Windows Shell/user
> >> >>
> >> >> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "REDWAGON" <REDWAGON@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> news:4135EF95-7A49-454D-B74F-4EB643572F5E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > What a crock of crapola all you MS-MVP's are talking about. And if
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > think
> >> >> > that most of those MS tech's from India talk better than most
> >> >> > americans,
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > are from a different planet !! The fact is that "Out Sourcing" for
> >> >> > Microsoft,
> >> >> > Dell and the rest of them is strickly for MONEY !!!. I think I know
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > a friend that IS in India helping some of the tech's and even HE has
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > hard
> >> >> > time getting them to understand and has a hard time understanding
> >> >> > most
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > them also. And the pay for the tech's there is so far under what
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > would
> >> >> > have to pay a good college grad tech from the US, it rediculous.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Don't get me wrong, I use MS products because even after all of
> >> >> > their
> >> >> > holes,
> >> >> > I have learned to skirt most of the problems by getting help from
> >> >> > groups
> >> >> > like
> >> >> > this. It just is very annoying that so many of the replies one gets
> >> >> > from
> >> >> > this
> >> >> > group for a particular problem is not even close.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Maybe if everyone had one of those "read line for line" books that
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > tech's from India have you would be as far ahead as calling them.
> >> >> > And
> >> >> > who
> >> >> > ever thinks the tech's in india have good English haven't called one
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > them
> >> >> > lately.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "OUT SOURCING"---If you think that is good for the good old USA, you
> >> >> > need
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > move out of the country, as your head is in the hole in the sand !!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Redwagon.....
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Steve N." wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> JB wrote:
> >> >> >> > Hi ... I am not racism at all and , I agree with you , If
> >> >> >> > microsoft
> >> >> >> > is
> >> >> >> > sending out there tech support call in center to another country
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > there
> >> >> >> > native language isn't English , Then Microsoft should at least
> >> >> >> > provide
> >> >> >> > tech
> >> >> >> > support people that can clearly speak the English language ,
> >> >> >> > Whats
> >> >> >> > the
.

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