Re: Backup Software?

abram_at_mailinator.com
Date: 01/27/05 

Date: 27 Jan 2005 13:43:03 -0800

Just a few notes due to the lack of time.

From
http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATIESWin/features-imaging.html
:

<<Acronis True Image 8.0 Enterprise Server for Windows allows you to
create the exact server disk image for complete backup providing the
comprehensive and cost effective server protection....
Backup only the ****necessary**** server disk sector contents
>>

The key word is "necessary". Who desides what is necessary? If Acronis
backs up only "necessary" content, then it's not true imaging, is it?
If a "true image" contains only "necessary" data, then how is it
different from a file system backup?

Next, there's no such thing as "the exact server disk image" of a
running system, in any practical sense. There may be exact images of
offline disks, not of an active Windows system partition.

Say I have an application that writes to file. I have some file data
cached in my application, some data is cached by the file system, the
rest of the data is physically on HDD. When any "true imaging" software
tries to make a "true image", the best it can do is flush the file
system buffers, and create an image of the file that doesn't contain
the data cached by my application. Due to the structure of the file,
that cached data is important, and the file is invalid without that
data.

What we've got is a corrupted image of the file, that won't work with
my application if restored from the "true image". See "I have complex
applications such as Microsoft SQL Server..."
http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATISWin/faq.html#19.

It is in theory impossible to handle the case above without interacting
with my application. That's when the volume shadow copy service,
supported by NTBackup, comes forward. The shadow copy service tells my
application to flush all the buffers and suspend all writes, so that a
coherent copy of the file can be taken. It's a bit more complicated
that just sector-by-sector copying, isn't it? If Acronis doesn't
support shadow copies, then it's not true imaging. If it does then it's
not true imaging anyway since many applications doesn't support shadow
copies either, and they must be stopped to make true images of their
data.

The summary. "True images" created by so-called "true imaging" software
are no more, if not less, "truer" than NTBackup's backup sets.

----------

If someone states that XP's and later NTBackup is legacy, they show
their ignorance. NTBackup is far from ideal, but it is maintaned by
Microsoft who knows more than anyone about Windows file systems. In
fact, BackupExec and BackupMyPC (they come from the same source as
NTBackup) are more legacy than NTBackup since they don't support the
new minitape driver model, and they don't work with tape drives unknown
to them. As opposed to NTBackup, which works with any tape drive, as
long as a correct minitape driver is provided by the manufacturer.

NTBackup targets tape drives just because the tape is the most reliable
high-capacity media. I would rather blame NTBackup if it supported
CD/DVD and not tapes. 

--
http://www.firestreamer.com - NTBackup to DVD and DV
PS. Al, I don't blame you. I just wasn't sure which post to reply to.
Al Dykes wrote:
> In article <uUtDUZEBFHA.2112@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>,
> Daniel Rudy <nospam@die.spammer.die> wrote:
> >
> >"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
> >news:ct8q7m$no2$1@panix5.panix.com...
> >> In article <uRnWi84AFHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
> >> Daniel Rudy <nospam@die.spammer.die> wrote:
> >>>What backup software is recommended for WinXP Pro?  The Microsoft
> >>>provided software is so brain-dead as to be virtually useless.  I
have
> >>>about 200GB of programs and data to backup.  The target media is a
> >>>400GB
> >>>harddisk in the hot-swap bay.  I want something that will compress
the
> >>>data.  Any suggestions?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ntbackup.exe is fine. I've used it for years.  It will backup
> >> disk-to-disk and if the target disk has compression property set
> >> (NTFS, which you've got to use) you will get a compressed saveset.
> >
> >Really?  Why do I have to compress the target disk to compress the
data
> >when the program should have an option for it internally without
relying
> >on the compression functions of the operating system?
> >
> >> NTbackup will do a full image backup of a running nt system.
> >
> >No it won't, and I can prove it.  Show me where in WinXP Pro SP2
that it
> >does images.
> >
>
>
>
> I can use ntbackup to backup a running server and resotore it after a
> disk crash in a production environment.  Done it a bunch of times.
>
> Image ?  if you mean a block-for-block duplicate of of a disk, no it
> doesn't work that way.  ntbackup works fine as a filesystem backup.
>
>
>
> >> Restore
> >> is a bit of a PITA if you've never done it. It also won't write to
> >> CDR/DVD media or break a saveset into chunks that match your
> >> media. Since I don;t trust CD/DVD for important backups.  this
doesn;t
> >> bother me.
> >
> >Breaking the backup set into smaller chunks is not exactly a
> >requirement, but media spanning should be an option in any backup
> >software worth it's salt, which ntbackup.exe isn't.
> >
>
> I don't say ntbackup was convient, or claim it replaced all the other
> software out there.
>
> >> A major plus is that backups done with ntbackup will be readable
in
> >> future versions of windows.
> >
> >No they aren't.  Backup sets from Win98 will not restore on WinXP.
I
> >know, I've tried it.  It doesn't work.  And there is no garuntee
that
> >Microsoft will not break backwards compatibility in the future
again.
>
> I never said anything about w/98.  I said ntbackup.
>
>
> >
> >> That's (IMO) a major shortcomming of lots
> >> of the low-end consumer backup software.  If the company goes bust
> >> you're SOL. The same can be said about cheap tape drive formats.
> >
> >At least the low end backup software can be installed on just about
any
> >OS from Win95 to Win Server 2003 and work just fine.  Because it's
the
> >same program, it will restore just fine.  Where as with ntbackup,
you
> >are stuck with the version that was installed with the operating
system,
> >and the file formats tend to change between OS versions.
> >
>
>
> Are you claiming that a ntbackup saveset made in nt3.51 can't be read
> in XP ?
>
> --
>
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
> 
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

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