Re: Activation stinks because I can't reinstall....

From: Jordan (nojunk_allowed_at_nospam.com)
Date: 01/15/05 

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:08:20 -0500

> Yes, because you have a history with the local vendor, that is why I said
> you could "request". I don't think you would complain about it to
> Microsoft would you?

The problem first is that it is inappropriate for me to ask my vendor to do
something that they are not supposed to do, especially with a company like
Microsoft. Everyone knows that Windows is on 90% of the personal computers
out there so my vendor's doors will close if they get in trouble with MS and
somehow loose their ability to pre-install MS products.

>There is no requirement it has to be left on the outside of the by the end
>user.
If I could peal it off without ripping the key in pieces I would, but we
both know that the tags are designed to tear appart into several pieces if
tampered with. A torn up tag is an invalid tag.

Yes, if I were just a single end user I would not care if the tag is on the
PC or not, but in the corperate world it is a lot different. If your part
of a publicly traded company you probably heard about the new requirements
for corperate accountability called SOX (Sarbanes - Oxley). Most of this
deals with accounting controls but as part of the audits you are required to
show that you have your licenses and that you are living up to them. Our
auditors made sure they checked the sides of every PC case for the tags. I
had 2 very old Win 95 machines that are just used to run some test equipmemt
and they asked where the tag was. I had a hard time getting them to accept
the fact that I did not need it done in this case because these were not
OEMs.

The auditors were clear that these were not their rules and they agreed that
it was inconvenient as well, but they insisted that as long as "Microsoft"
made this a requirement then they had to give me a hard time over it. Its
not the auditors or the vendors fault that this is required by MS.

> Why do you need to know what SP of XP that shipped with the computer? All
> you need is a slipstreamed XP CD with SP.

That is what I thought before I made my original post but that has not
turned out to be true. Here are the results from a couple of tests that I
did in the mean time:

Slipstream a release CD to SP2 and use release key - OK
Slipstream a SP1 CD to SP2 and use SP1 key - OK
Install or repair with SP2 CD and use retail key - FAIL
Install or repair with SP2 CD and use SP1a key - FAIL
Install or repair with SP2 CD and use SP1 key - FAIL
Slipstream a release CD to SP2 and use SP1 key - FAIL
Slipstream a SP1(a) CD to SP2 and use SP1 key - FAIL

If you look deeper under a part of this thread you can see that
"off3oblivion" confirms this to be the case. He also posts more details of
the requirements. I think he is off on the pricing or is quoting XP home
becaue $30-40 seem very low for XP Pro and seem more like the home OEM Home
prices, but I can find that out later.

"Michael Stevens" <mstevens@bogusmvps.org> wrote in message
news:eLSfrTs%23EHA.1452@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> "Jordan" <nojunk_allowed@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:u7frV2l%23EHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> "Since you get your systems from a local vendor If they assemble them you
>> could request they place the sticker inside the case."
>>
>> Oh Yeah! Read Section 8 of the OEM System Builders License.
>> ============================
>> http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/sbLicense2004/English_SB_License.pdf
>>
>> 8. CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY (COA) LABEL/PROOF OF LICENSE (POL) LABEL.
>> If the individual software license includes a COA or combination COA/POL
>> label, the system builder who installs the individual software license
>> must attach the COA or combination COA/POL label, as applicable, to the
>> outside of the fully assembled computer system case in an easily
>> accessible location.
>> ============================
>>
>> Notice how it says OUTSIDE and in an EASILY ACCESSIBLE LOCATION. Now
>> maybe you should finally admit that you were wrong for making stupid
>> comments about me not knowing what I am talking about now that it has
>> been made clear in B&W that you don't know the first thing about what you
>> are talking about.
>>
>
> Yes, because you have a history with the local vendor, that is why I said
> you could "request". I don't think you would complain about it to
> Microsoft would you? There is no requirement it has to be left on the
> outside of the case by the end user. All that you as the end user has to
> make sure of is each Product Key is used only once.
>
>> As for integrating the SP into the original install what don't you
>> understand????? I am still in the same boat because no matter what
>> version I patch to be up to the latest, that unpatched version to start
>> must be the same as the installed version on the computer getting the
>> inplace upgrade. That can be one of 4 versions of the hundred CDs that I
>> have now.
>>
>
> Why do you need to know what SP of XP that shipped with the computer? All
> you need is a slipstreamed XP CD with SP 2 corresponding to the type
> [OEM, Branded OEM, Retail, Home, Pro] used on the computer. You DO NOT
> need to first start with original CD.
>
>> Also, the hardware, etc have NOTHING to do with the OEM CD that ships
>> from MS. You can use any standard OEM cd no matter what the service pack
>> to do a "fresh" install and at no time will the hardware cause any
>> invalid key error so again you don't know what you are talking about.
>
> I never said anything about hardware
> Some Branded OEM CD's will not accept a generic OEM PK.
>
>>
>> You only get a error on hardware if you use a "Recovery CD" configured by
>> Dell, Sony, etc. The Recovery CD will check the hardware match prior to
>> installing because this is a copy of the shipped image. It is not an
>> install.
>>
>
> Never mentioned Recovery CD's.
>
>
>
>
>> It wasn't this way in NT 4 or in Windows 2000. I could use a 2000 SPx
>> install to reinstall a system that shipped with any previous service pack
>> without a problem and this
>>
>
> They didn't have activation either.
> --
> Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
> xpnews@bogusmichaelstevenstech.com
> http://michaelstevenstech.com
>
>> "Michael Stevens" <mstevens@bogusmvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:usddqff%23EHA.1408@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> Jordan wrote:
>>>> Not for nothing but by suggesting that "I" put my IDs in the case
>>>> shows that you're the one that really does not know what your talking
>>>> about. Check EVERY OEM computer and you will see that THEY put the
>>>> ID on the outside of the case per MS instruction. "I" don't have a
>>>> say in the matter. Anyone that knows what they are talking about
>>>> wouldn't think that the end buyers have anything to say about where
>>>> the sticker goes.
>>>
>>> There is no restriction saying you cannot write down the product id,
>>> remove the sticker and put the Product ID anywhere you want it. Since
>>> you get your systems from a local vendor If they assemble them you could
>>> request they place the sticker inside the case.
>>>
>>>> Again, the issue I have is not whether or not I can roll a SP into any
>>>> version because that is easy. That still does not elimiate the
>>>> problem on what the base version was that I rolled the SP into. Even
>>>> If I roll SP2 into a SP1 CD install, If I try to use that install on
>>>> a machine that has Release, SP1a, or an SP2 machine the "Invalid ID"
>>>> error is still going to happen. Unless I have some way to tell
>>>> exactly what version was "originally" installed with that ID it
>>>> becomes very difficult to track down.
>>>
>>> If the XP CD's are generic OEM, a slipstreamed CD should not give an
>>> Invalid ID. The OEM branded CD's when slipstreamed should also work on
>>> any of the same brand computers. Same goes for retail. The CD's are not
>>> hard coded with a Product ID so all you need is a data base of Product
>>> ID's and corresponding computers and "a" corresponding XP CD. The way
>>> the system shipped is irrelevant in regard to service pack and Product
>>> ID. If the system shipped with a Generic OEM, use the Generic OEM with
>>> SP of your choice and the Product ID assigned to the computer. Same with
>>> Branded OEM and Retail.
>>>
>>>> The fact is leaving the ID on the CD case was always the best thing.
>>>> When the ID was on the CD case I never had to track what version SP
>>>> was on the PC other than the current. All I had to do was check my
>>>> database that shows me the ID I used for that machine and get the
>>>> disk out of the draw for any reinstall. Now I need to modify my help
>>>> desk program to add more fields for the original installed versions
>>>> of all the MS stuff and that is a pain.
>>>> Also, try pealing one of those off the case any you will see that
>>>> they rip into pieces. Anyone that knows what they are talking about
>>>> wouldn't suggest that either.
>>>
>>> Why not, can't you write it down. I also remove the tags from pillows.
>>> 8-)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
>>> xpnews@bogusmichaelstevenstech.com
>>> http://michaelstevenstech.com
>>> For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
>>> http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jordan
>>>> MCSE since 1996
>>>> Microsoft Certified Partner +5 years
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Michael Stevens" <mstevens@bogusmvps.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:umICFZP%23EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jordan" <nojunk_allowed@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:uFN$v3L%23EHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Maybe you should actually try reading the post instead of being a
>>>>>> wise ass!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I could keep my stupid key on the CD case then I could easily
>>>>>> look at what key was used on the machine with some MS tools and a
>>>>>> thousand other key tools. When I need to reinstall I could use the
>>>>>> key reader or look on my inventory *** to see what key is on the
>>>>>> PC and get the CD that has that key number on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MS making it so my XP, XP SP1, SP1a, and SP2 keys cannot be
>>>>>> installed on each version when the patches and updates are FREE
>>>>>> makes no sense. It is not like when you purchased Win 95 and they
>>>>>> had OEM Service Release 2 which had a bunch of new cool stuff in it
>>>>>> specifically for OEM distributers to market their new PCs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is stupid to make it so I have all my PCs on Windows XP SP2 and
>>>>>> force me to use my Release, SP1, or SP1a CD to roll back everything
>>>>>> and then reinstall SP2 when I should just be able to use SP2 to
>>>>>> begin with. There is nothing in my previous post that could indicate
>>>>>> that I am
>>>>>> trolling for any hackers so maybe you should not comment if your
>>>>>> just going to post paraniod replies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing paranoid in my reply, just observation that you don't know
>>>>> what you are doing or talking about. All you have to do is make a
>>>>> slipstreamed XP CD for each version of XP you have with the
>>>>> appropriate Service Pack rolled into it. What keeps you from using a
>>>>> spread*** to list your keys? It's not like you need a CD with each
>>>>> key and put the product id inside the case if your employees are
>>>>> that disgruntled. --
>>>>> Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
>>>>> xpnews@bogusmichaelstevenstech.com
>>>>> http://michaelstevenstech.com
>>>>> For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
>>>>> http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Michael Stevens" <mstevens@bogusmvps.org> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:uOltbKD%23EHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Jordan wrote:
>>>>>>>> I had to do an in place upgrade for my computer since I replaced
>>>>>>>> the MOBO and processor so I thought I would save myself the
>>>>>>>> hassle of having to install SP2 all over again and just use one
>>>>>>>> of my CDs that has SP2 on it already since I don't know what
>>>>>>>> originally was purchased for this machine. The problem is that
>>>>>>>> when it comes time to enter my "VALID" product ID, Windows tells
>>>>>>>> me it is invalid before it even checks with MS.
>>>>>>>> Why does this have to be such a pain? I have a hundred computers
>>>>>>>> that I am responsible to keep up to date and I cannot tell which
>>>>>>>> computer came with the release of XP, SP1, SP1a, or SP2. If I was
>>>>>>>> allowed to keep my stupid product ID labels on my CD case rather
>>>>>>>> than the computer case I might not have the problem of knowing
>>>>>>>> which CD and version was installed on which computer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, instead I have to take my product ID labels and fasten them
>>>>>>>> to my desktops where every disgruntled employee can write down
>>>>>>>> the numbers and post them on the Internet so that all my licenses
>>>>>>>> are voided. How does this activation stuff protect me again????
>>>>>>>> All I can see is that I have to do a ton more work and keep more
>>>>>>>> file cabinets full of junk to match each cd set to each PC rather
>>>>>>>> than just keeping my key codes in a safe place and a spread***
>>>>>>>> telling me which key is on what PC.
>>>>>>>> Is there at least some way I can find out what was the original
>>>>>>>> installed version of Windows XP?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds suspiciously like a troll post, since you don't seem to know
>>>>>>> enough to be responsible for one computer let alone hundreds. <G>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
>>>>>>> xpnews@bogusmichaelstevenstech.com
>>>>>>> http://michaelstevenstech.com
>>>>>>> For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
>>>>>>> http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>