Re: Windows Explorer crashes in XP-Pro/SP2

From: Karl Jahr (karl_at_jahr.us)
Date: 01/01/05 

Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:52:56 -0500

Thanks again. I don't have time and energy to go through their "support" and
guess I'll have to wait until someone in the 60 billion dollar operation
figures out what is going wrong and fixes it (by breaking something else).
BTW Firefox is a great browser and the open source Open Office suite a great
replacement for Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. Makes you independent of big
Bill, is free, and has great peer support. Try it. 

-- 
Have a nice day
Karl Jahr
3906 Ridge Road
Annandale, VA 22003-1833, USA
Phone (703)637-0358
This message has been virus checked by Norton AntiVirus
"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message 
news:xfOdnZIe1ddSTEvcRVn-oQ@scnresearch.com...
> "Karl Jahr" <karl@jahr.us> writes:
>>Thanks. I'm not going to fool around with my system and guess I'll have to
>>live with it until Bill & Co have fix. Meanwhile I shall send them an 
>>error
>>message every time this happens.
>
> It sounds like you have already tried to do reasonable things to check
> for "spyware and viruses."  Almost everything is blamed on those.
> As has been said here many times, sending them the error message every
> time doesn't mean that anyone reads those messages or starts working
> on your problem because of that.  There might be someone inside Microsoft
> who gets a report printed out each week, and says "Ho Hum, another
> thirty seven million windows explorer crashes this week."  But they
> aren't going to call you, they aren't going to debug your crash.
>
> As I put at the bottom, you can go to their web page and start up their
> free SP2 support process.  The primary goal of that is to find any way
> to bury your problem, not track down the source of the problem, based
> on my three months experience with them.  They have a script they are
> following and the first thing that they can find that makes the
> problem not visible is the goal of this.  For example, if they find
> that you can create a new user and that doesn't show the problem then
> they are done, there is zero, maybe even negative, interest in trying
> to diagnose the real cause of this so that you and perhaps hundreds or
> thousands of other people can get a fix for this.  And that sort
> of strategy contributes to why there are so many unrepaired and unknown
> problems that never get fixed.
>
> My apology for what is called software today.  It is actually possible
> to write software that is more reliable than you can imagine, I've
> worked in projects and we have sold it.  But nobody has time for that,
> they are all too busy trying to bury the problems in what they have done.
>
>>I'm new to this user group. Where do I find updates to your findings?
>
>>Happy New Year. Karl Jahr
>>This message has been virus checked by Norton AntiVirus
>>"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
>>news:aL6dnQKBNo-euEvcRVn-hQ@scnresearch.com...
>>> "Karl Jahr" <karl@jahr.us> writes:
>>>>I use WinXP-Pro. Windows Explorer (NOT INTERNET EXPLORER!) 
>>>>intermittently
>>>>crashes when I start it. Message: "Windows Explorer has encountered a
>>>>problem and needs to close." After it closes some of the small icons in
>>>>the
>>>>tray on the right side of the task bar disappear, even though the 
>>>>programs
>>>>still run.
>>>
>>>>Virus or spyware should not be the culprits. I am using most current 
>>>>virus
>>>>and spyware definitions from Norton and Lavasoft Ad-Aware and run virus
>>>>and
>>>>spy checks regularly.
>>>
>>>>I am sure I never had this problem before I upgraded to SP2 but am not
>>>>sure
>>>>whether it is related to this upgrade either.
>>>
>>>>Everytime it happens I allow a trouble report to be sent to Microsoft, 
>>>>but
>>>>don't know what they do with them.
>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>Have a nice day
>>>>Karl Jahr
>>>>3906 Ridge Road
>>>>Annandale, VA 22003-1833, USA
>>>>Phone (703)637-0358
>>>>This message has been virus checked by Norton AntiVirus
>>>
>>> New developments listed at the bottom of this, but still no fix, yet.
>>>
>>> If you have recently installed SP2 on your computer then
>>> there have now been over 200 people reporting very similar problems
>>> to what you are reporting.  Some find that anything which uses
>>> Windows Explorer (Recycle bin, folder shortcuts, control panel,
>>> search, etc) all have a similar problem.  Some find that right
>>> clicks are their major problem.  Some find any click.  Some find
>>> it crashes on open.  Some find it refuses any clicks.  Some claim
>>> they know how to fix this but I've read the tens of thousands of
>>> postings on SP2 and I don't think you will find any with "the fix"
>>> for this, at least not yet.  Less than a dozen people ever reported
>>> finding a solution for this.
>>>
>>> But, some find it will work when you boot in safe mode.
>>>
>>> And, some find it will work when you create a new user and switch
>>> to that user to try it.
>>>
>>> One of those might be a temporary work-around till you get an answer.
>>>
>>> Some claim it is all spyware and viruses but I haven't seen any
>>> posting that confirmed this for the Windows Explorer problem.  I
>>> carefully and repeatedly checked, no viruses or spyware and my
>>> windows explorer locks up every time.  <<<Late breaking news, after
>>> hundreds of people reporting this problem, ONE person did let me
>>> know that trendmicro actually found a WORM_SDDROP.A virus/worm, he
>>> removed that and it appeared to solve his problem, so that's 10,000
>>> times people chanting "it's all viruses and spyware" and one correct
>>> diagnosis>>>
>>>
>>> Some claim it is all "bad applications" like Divx or Spy Sweeper
>>> being installed that is responsible for this, a very few people
>>> have confirmed this appeared to be the source of their problem but
>>> others have these installed and have no problem, most reporting the
>>> problem don't have these installed and still have the problem.  I
>>> don't have either and it locks up every time.  And unfortunately
>>> there is still no list of specific files known to cause this.
>>>
>>> Some claim it is all "ShellExtensions", little accessory gadgets
>>> that sort of script extra cute features.  The advice for that is
>>> to install free ShellExView and to try (carefully) disabling these
>>> features one at a time, if turning one off doesn't do anything then
>>> turn it back on and try again.  I did that with all 75 at once and
>>> it made no difference at all.  Two people have reported that disabling
>>> one extension they had did appear to fix their problem.
>>>
>>> Some claim it is all "corrupted user profiles" that are the
>>> cause of this but I've never been able to track down a tool that
>>> would check a user profile to see if it was corrupted.  There was
>>> one web page that Microsoft had which described a way of reporting
>>> errors found in this but this doesn't appear feasible for XP.
>>>
>>> You can try to uninstall SP2, there are various descriptions of how
>>> to do that, using Control Panel/Add-Remove Programs or using a
>>> Restore point or doing a Repair Install of Windows or reformatting
>>> your hard drive, each of those is a bigger hammer than the previous
>>> method, but a number of folks have reported having various problems
>>> when they try to remove SP2 or after they do so.  To be fair, SP2
>>> probably fixes thousands of small and massive bugs in Windows XP
>>> and if you can get it to work it is probably a good thing to have.
>>>
>>> You can escalate to Microsoft, go to
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/windowsxpsp2 and give them all the
>>> details and clues and patterns you can find.  There is no guarantee
>>> that their analysis or directions will be correct or even not make
>>> it worse.  They told me I must "have some corrupted files, repair
>>> windows back to install state and then reinstall SP2 twice while
>>> in Safe mode."  Before I did that someone posted the "switch user"
>>> workaround that let me get by temporarily.  I sent email saying
>>> that if it worked for one user then it seemed less likely it was
>>> "some corrupted files" and asked if they still wanted me to blow
>>> windows away.  They have not reponded to that in a number of days
>>> now.  But I can imagine what it is like inside now.
>>>
>>> You can try each one of these things and see if any one of them
>>> helps, but don't expect a fix.
>>>
>>> <<<New Developments>>>
>>> I just spent another two hours in chat with Microsoft Support, he
>>> changed his diagnosis a dozen times, going back to things we had
>>> already concluded had nothing to do with this, he thought that a
>>> file might have been corrupted during installation and this would
>>> leave an error message in /windows/setuperr.log, that file is empty,
>>> so he thought there might be answers in /windows/setupapi.log but
>>> he said he was not trained to know how to interpret that file, and
>>> the final conclusion was that he didn't know how to fix this one
>>> and I was "escalated", again.
>>>
>>> So the next guy had me run msconfig, in the startup tab disable all
>>> items, in the service tab hide all Microsoft services and disable
>>> all, reboot the machine, tell it not to show or launch the config
>>> window... If the problem had disappeared after this was done then
>>> the instructions were to begin enabling these items one at a time
>>> until the one was found that made this fail.  My Windows Explorer
>>> problem was unchanged and I was "escalated" again.
>>>
>>> So the next guy had me download a copy of Process Explorer and dump
>>> out all the dll's that are connected with Windows Explorer and mail
>>> them to him. Just like the situation with shell extensions, I see
>>> that all but a couple of these are Microsoft supplied.  After he had
>>> seen the list he asked that I rename some of the non-Microsoft dll's
>>> and reboot, likely to see if they were responsible.  The problem was
>>> still there and I've restored the original names.  Now we seem to be
>>> back to square one and he's asking again if this happens in Safe
>>> mode, which we have already repeatedly covered.
>>>
>>> Now we've sent him HijackThis logs, 3 megabytes of ntuser.dat, he
>>> keeps claiming they DO have a process for figuring this out but
>>> there just isn't anything that can diagnose what the problem is and
>>> they just keep trying things until the problem seems to go away.
>>> And he asks me to send him HijackThis logs again.  He admits that
>>> lots of people have problems with Windows Explorer and that usually
>>> they can figure something out but that there is no list of known
>>> file names/sizes/dates/version numbers that fail, there is no list
>>> of steps a person can follow to track this down.  And they spent a
>>> billion bucks making Sp2 more secure and bug free!  But that doesn't
>>> put anything in the event log for Windows Explorer failures and the
>>> flood of error reports send to them when people have this happens
>>> apparently doesn't give them any clue what the cause is either.
>>>
>>> Another week goes by before he responds... and he didn't find
>>> anything in the HijackThis logs this time either.  And he didn't
>>> find anything in ntuser.dat.  Now he has me back to msconfig,
>>> turning everything off in msconfig for selective startup and
>>> rebooting, with a cute little note that doing this isn't recommended
>>> for anyone but a pro to do.  The problem is still there.  As a
>>> bonus, his directions have now blown away my Windows activation and
>>> it is telling me that the computer has changed and I have to
>>> reactivate, even though nothing has changed in months.
>>>
>>> That didn't do solve the problem so now he concludes it must be one
>>> of the hardware drivers and he tells me to start disabling those
>>> until we find the culprit.  But this is senseless, we have already
>>> ruled that out because switching to a freshly created new user makes
>>> the problem go away.  He hasn't answered whether he still wants me
>>> to disable the drivers yet.
>>>
>>> Can you say "clueless groping, hoping for a miracle"?  3 1/2 weeks
>>> of playing this game with them and no sign that any progress has
>>> been made.
>>>
>>> So I have repeatedly told them I don't just want to randomly change
>>> things until we don't notice the problem anymore, I'm going to track
>>> down the real root cause of this one and we are going to get a fix
>>> for this.
>>>
>>> I hope something in this helps someone.  But it appears that the
>>> large majority of people never get a fix for the "Windows Explorer"
>>> problem.  If someone tells you to try something and it doesn't help
>>> then please make a posting so we can start accumulating what
>>> suggestions don't do any good.  And if someone tells you something
>>> that does work then please report it.
>
>

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Windows Explorer crashes in XP-Pro/SP2
    ... > New developments listed at the bottom of this, but still no fix, yet. ... > to what you are reporting. ... > posting that confirmed this for the Windows Explorer problem. ... > to install free ShellExView and to try disabling these ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Right click freezes computer since SP2
    ... If you have recently installed SP2 on your computer then ... there have now been over 200 people reporting very similar problems ... Windows Explorer (Recycle bin, folder shortcuts, control panel, ... Restore point or doing a Repair Install of Windows or reformatting ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Problem with Windows Explorer on XP-Pro/SP2
    ... New developments listed at the bottom of this, but still no fix, yet. ... If you have recently installed SP2 on your computer then ... there have now been over 200 people reporting very similar problems ... Windows Explorer (Recycle bin, folder shortcuts, control panel, ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Error during every search
    ... >This was an issue long before SP2 was even a twinkle in Bill Gates' eye. ... is quite the same as the other hundreds of SP2 Windows Explorer ... >> to what you are reporting. ... >> to install free ShellExView and to try disabling these ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Error during every search
    ... This was an issue long before SP2 was even a twinkle in Bill Gates' eye. ... > Search uses the Windows Explorer base to run from, ... > to what you are reporting. ... > to install free ShellExView and to try disabling these ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
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