Re: Differences between Windows Xp professional and Windos Xp Media Ce

From: Mike Brannigan [MSFT] (mikebran_at_online.microsoft.com)
Date: 10/28/04 

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:14:27 +0100

"David Candy" <david@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u$9QsBSvEHA.2012@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Lets not worry about some foreign firm I've not heard of.

Then why are you bothered at all whether it is a foreign form or a US based
one.

> My question is more generic. My mail box is filled with offers to buy
> XP OEM (and drugs from canada at ten times the Australian price
> and US mortages).

That is not related to this dicsussion and is more related to SPAm in
general and the use of your e-mail address etc.

> It the principle generally of OEM software being
> sold as a retail product - no hardware required .

That is not the case in this discussing - both companies (mentioned in this
thread) clearly stated the position of the requirements of non peripheral
hardware being required.
If you believe that other companies are in breach of the requirements and
their licensing deals then report them.

> If you (MS) are giving the nudge, nudge, wink, wink to this practise
> then this is defrauding the customers that pay retail (3 times as much).

We are not giving any "nudge, nudge, wink, wink " to this practice - we
clearly state our terms of license for our products and the resellers and
OEM system builders are required to comply with the terms they have agreed
to. If they are in breach of contracts or licensing terms then they will be
dealt with accordingly.
If a customer chooses to take there business in full knowledge of what the
product they are buying is and the terms of that product are clearly
displayed to them and they agree to abide by them then this is customer
choice and free market forces in action. People have the freedom on choice
to purchase our products in many ways and each of these methods comes with
certain terms that they are required to adhere to.
Personal choice over a number of options does not equal fraud

I can buy an identical car from a number of sources and they will all come
with differing warrantees and costs - I am being defrauded by the car
manufacturer or do I make an informed decision about where I purchase given
all the factors ?

> The links to such sites are posted here from time to time in
> licensing discussions. I did a survey for MS today. They got 1
> (very good) for everything but ethics (where I scored them 5 - very poor).
> I did a big one two weeks ago and ditto. I'm sure I'm not the only person
> to answer that way.

Your survey completions are not germane to this thread. 

-- 
Regards,
Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups
"David Candy" <david@mvps.org> wrote in message 
news:u$9QsBSvEHA.2012@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Lets not worry about some foreign firm I've not heard of. My question is 
more generic. My mail box is filled with offers to buy XP OEM (and drugs 
from canada at ten times the Australian price and US mortages). It the 
principle generally of OEM software being sold as a retail product - no 
hardware required .
If you (MS) are giving the nudge, nudge, wink, wink to this practise then 
this is defrauding the customers that pay retail (3 times as much).
The links to such sites are posted here from time to time in licensing 
discussions. I did a survey for MS today. They got 1 (very good) for 
everything but ethics (where I scored them 5 - very poor). I did a big one 
two weeks ago and ditto. I'm sure I'm not the only person to answer that 
way.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.uscricket.com
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" <mikebran@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:uBSGfuRvEHA.3872@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> "David Candy" <david@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:OHLXcaRvEHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> Well I have reported piracy of Win 2000 Server and workstations
>> but MS don't care (anything under $100,000 I think).
>> And it was you (MS) that I was accusing.
>> And I did not read anything on that page that said it was supplied
>> with hardware. There was a disclaimer on it but no signs of hardware.
>
>> Does MS advise that all retail/upgrade consumers buy OEM and save money.
>
> David,
>
> Please provide details of where you think we (Microsoft) has engaged in
> fraudulent activity in regard to this matter.
>
> I cannot speak for eBuyer but I recently purchased a part that was OEM 
> only
> from another supplier and during the purchase process on the web site I 
> was
> required to purchase a appropriate additional hardware component to comply
> with the OEM licensing I was operating under for the part I was purchasing
> initially.
>
>
> Microsoft offers our Windows opertaing system for general retail sale or
> purchase preinstalled by OEMs.  There is also a market in existence that
> supplies Microsoft OEM products with non peripheral hardware as part of 
> the
> purchase
>
> End users/customer should choose whichever purchasing options best meets
> there requirements given the differences that exist between all the 
> options
> in a number of areas - examples being (but not limited to) support and
> license usage rights (OEM one time use vs. Retail may be moved) etc.
>
> -- 
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
> --
> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights
>
> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
> newsgroups
>
> "David Candy" <david@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:OHLXcaRvEHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Well I have reported piracy of Win 2000 Server and workstations but MS 
> don't
> care (anything under $100,000 I think). And it was you (MS) that I was
> accusing. And I did not read anything on that page that said it was 
> supplied
> with hardware. There was a disclaimer on it but no signs of hardware.
>
> Does MS advise that all retail/upgrade consumers buy OEM and save money.
>
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.uscricket.com
> "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" <mikebran@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:etCShURvEHA.2316@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> David,
>>
>> I a well aware of the contents of the System Build er licensing,
>>
>> As I pointed out the link to the OEM edition on eBuyer clearly states 
>> that
>> it will be only supplied with a non-peripheral piece of hardware and in 
>> so
>> doing they are complying with the letter of the reseller agreement.
>>
>> The license you are quoting from is the system builder license - which 
>> may
>> not necessarily the licensing terms eBuyer may be under.
>>
>> Even so if they are in breach of any of the terms of licensing for their
>> sale of OEM software ,that is in no way defrauding the end user as your
>> initial accusation stated or were you directing that accusation at us
>> (Microsoft) - if so again there is no fraudulent activity taking place 
>> and
>> you should be more careful prior to making such accusations.
>>
>> If you still feel eBuyer are in violation of their contracts and 
>> licensing
>> agreements with Microsoft feel free to report them to the
>> piracy@microsoft.com e-mail alias with details of your complaint and
>> supporting evidence.
>> -- 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike
>> --
>> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>>
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights
>>
>> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
>> newsgroups
>>
>> "David Candy" <david@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:eaFwrkQvEHA.2316@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> As the supplier is not complying with the OEM EULA (the MS to OEM
>> agreement)
>> then the supplier cannot license the OS to the user as the supplier is 
>> the
>> licensor but has nothing to license.
>>
>> 4.3 Each Software Unit must be distributed pursuant to the End-User
>> License
>> Agreement that accompanies
>>
>> the Software Unit. Under the terms of the EULA you are the licensor.
>>
>>
>>
>> 9. END-USER SUPPORT
>>
>> The System Builder who installs the software must provide end-user 
>> support
>> on terms at least as favorable as
>>
>> the terms under which the System Builder provides end-user support for 
>> any
>> fully assembled computer
>>
>> system. The System Builder providing the support must place its support
>> phone number conspicuously in the
>>
>> fully assembled computer system help files or end-user documentation
>> materials.
>>
>>
>> 15.1 You may not advertise or price any Software Unit separately from its
>> accompanying fully assembled
>> computer system or computer hardware. Except as granted in this license,
>> you
>> may not use, run, distribute,
>>
>> copy, modify, display, repackage, or reassemble any Software Units or
>> hardware, or any part of them.
>>
>>
>> I was hoping for a more official response rather than seeking to score
>> points from you as this is discussed here a bit. If the supplier doesn't
>> have to follow their license why should retail/upgrade customers (who
>> unlike
>> OEM users are YOUR customers).
>> -- 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> http://www.uscricket.com
>> "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" <mikebran@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:ObaHtfOvEHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> Where do you see "fraud" of the end user?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> --
>>> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>>>
>>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>> rights
>>>
>>> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
>>> newsgroups
>>>
>>> "David Candy" <david@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>> news:ekzpNVNvEHA.1616@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> So why does MS permit such blatent fraud of it's end users?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> http://www.uscricket.com
>>> "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" <mikebran@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23vlsoCNvEHA.3200@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>> "jeffrey" <jeffrey@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:OgIDMWMvEHA.1988@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Hi Will,
>>>>>
>>>>> When did that happen?  I always heard Media Edition was only to be 
>>>>> sold
>>>>> with
>>>>> prebuilt systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> Windows XP Media Center Edition is an OEM only product and may be only
>>>> sold
>>>> like other Microsoft OEM operating systems either with a new PC or with
>>>> a
>>>> non peripheral hardware component.
>>>> So on the site that Will pointed out - read the small print near the
>>>> bottom
>>>> of the page
>>>> "...
>>>> OEM Information: You receive a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) and a
>>>> CD
>>>> containing the program on it. This is a legal OEM version of the 
>>>> product
>>>> licensed by Microsoft to be sold with any "non-peripheral hardware
>>>> component" and is bundled as such. OEM products are not retail packaged
>>>> and
>>>> will not contain a manual. OEM versions cannot be returned under any
>>>> reasons
>>>> ..."
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> --
>>>> Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
>>>>
>>>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>>> rights
>>>>
>>>> Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
>>>> newsgroups
>>>>
>>>> "jeffrey" <jeffrey@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:OgIDMWMvEHA.1988@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Hi Will,
>>>>>
>>>>> When did that happen?  I always heard Media Edition was only to be 
>>>>> sold
>>>>> with
>>>>> prebuilt systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> "Will Denny" <willdenny@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>>>> news:utLtETMvEHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends where you live:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=2653896006&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=74686
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will Denny
>>>>>> MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
>>>>>> Please reply to the News Groups
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "jeffrey" <jeffrey@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%23QQVyOMvEHA.3656@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> > Hi,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > From what I have heard, you can`t buy the Media Edition, it is only
>>>>>> > provided
>>>>>> > to computer system manufacture`s.  You can only buy the Home and 
>>>>>> > Pro
>>>>>> > editions publicly.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Jeff
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "Andrea" <Andrea@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> > news:D5A7AEC9-FBB0-41A0-9DB1-698EEC472A07@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> >> I 'm glad to know the differences between Windows Xp professional
>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>> > Windows
>>>>>> >> Media Center 2005. I'm planning to buy a tv tunner fo my computer
>>>>>> >> so
>>>>>> >> I
>>>>>> > want
>>>>>> >> to know if it's better to use Xp Professional or media Center. I
>>>>>> >> red
>>>>> that
>>>>>> >> Media center is based on windows Xp Home edition, but I tried that
>>>>>> >> version
>>>>>> >> last year then I decided to buy the professional Edition, becouse
>>>>>> >> is
>>>>> more
>>>>>> >> stable. So before buying the Media center Edition I need some
>>>>>> >> information!
>>>>>> >> Thanks to all for yours answers
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>