Re: New Imformation: "Out Out damned html!" --Macbeth?:"

From: Chad Harris (ddram32_nospam_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 08/10/04 

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:55:23 -0400

Kelly--

1) If I'm posting in HTML again, it's really difficult to tell how.
Everything is turned off at every possible html spicket. I have both mail
and newsgroups set to plain text on the Tools>Options send.

2) When I click on the Reply icon on the toolbar, it automatically sets up
to format in html--I have no clue why nor does anyone else here, and I'll
take it to the OE MVPs but I am turning it off manually by selecting
Format>Plain text on the newsgroup message. If this message posts as html,
I'm missing something gigantic.

3) My reference to "Is It true" was a registry key I pasted when HTML kicked
in automatically and I didn't know it--that retained HTML formatting and it
brought the comment "html?" from you in a post the other day--Same issue as
#2 and the same thing I pasted from here in your SR article on your site at
the bottom. It didn't have anything to do with *any SR thread* you
"worked."

I *really* appreciate the clarification from Ron here--it helps--I was
caught off guard thinking that if you only put text in the message and the
bar is down you aren't posting in html--now I know you are-- but the bar
(the one that doesn't exist in Jan's universe but does in Microsoft's IE/OE
development team's) won't be staying down at least in this group.

"When you are composing the message, Format, Plain Text.
If you have the formatting bar in your composition window, you are using
HTML even if you only put text in the message."

There shouldn't be a relationship with the Mail Sending Format and the
Email sending format but maybe there is. I think Tom Koch and many others
have pointed out that OE has not been the most perfectly crafted (to use the
over-worked TV talking head Congressional buzz word) application--it's free
but it brings the newsgroups a lot better than the web interface so it's
valuable. It also is easier to use for mail than Outlook for some new
users.

BTW I pasted that title below from the System Restore web page on your site
linked below into Notepad and it came into this message *still in a bold
format,* but my friend the HTML Formatting bar wasn't showing. So as not to
risk it, I just wiped it out and typed it.

Highlights of System Restore Fixes in SP1

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_restore.htm

So I'll look for the answer to those two questions from OE
MVPs/mavens/experts/enthusiasts

1) Why does the ##%%%&&** bar persist in showing up when I click reply on
the message toolbar under subject so that I manually have to turn it off
(mouse clicks not digging ditches)?

2) Why did the title from your webpage at the bottom from the piece that
Anshul Rawat [MS] wrote persist in bold even after I stripped it into
notepad?

If anyone knows another place to stop html I'm all ears for this--if it's
still showing up. I seriously doubt it is. I thought I hit every location
on the OE menus possible.

Chad

"Kelly" <kelly@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u4hCJOqfEHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Chad,

You are posting in html again.

As for your line: SR, Is it True,Why?......I have no clue what you are
speaking of. If it is on my site, you would have to give more information
as to which section, etc.

However, I haven't worked any SR threads as of late, so don't even know why
you are bringing this up in this thread, anyway. I would suggest starting a
new one for someone else.

As for your settings for OE (to view, read and send in plain text) has
already been explained and you verified. As for hyperlinks, etc. as you can
clearly see, my signature contain one, 90% of the body of my replies contain
them and I post in plain text.

To prevent posting in html using OE don't use Rich Text. 

-- 
All the Best,
Kelly
Microsoft-MVP Windows® XP
2004 Windows MVP "Winny" Award
Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23lpq9WjfEHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Sorry for being so dense.  What you meant is that the different formatting
on your SR article (possibly supplied by the guy who wrote it) would be
stripped and wouldn't have been reproduced after notepad stripped it.  Had I
known it would bother someone, I could have easily reformatted it before
posting by simply moving it next to regular plain text--the same way large
MSKB titles get changed or anything else.  I really was suprised when it was
prerved just as I was surprised when that reg key was preserved from Is It
True?  Why?  Because they never had been before--and I assumed they would be
stripped automaticaly.  That's what happened.
You're right about OE problems going to OE, and normally that's what I'd do.
I wonder though if you can answer one question that still has me confused.
If the html formatting bar or whatever you would like to name it (I know Jan
says it doesn't exist) but Microsoft does in a dozen places cubed) is
down--and it does show up on this group and not others when I click reply on
the OE toolbar but the only thing you are posting is plain text--you aren't
underlining anything or I paste a link from Kelly's XP how have I posted in
html--I'm not arguing I'm just trying to figure this out.  That bar has come
down hundreds of times in this group, but I never got a complaint when you
were on the thread and I think the reason is because regular hyperlinks and
text were just plain text and hyperlinks on the post.   What changed was
that font preserved in your Sys Restore article.
BTW Kelly--That little tidbit of very  important information is mentioned
absolutely nowhere I can find on the web going to scores of XP sites and SR
articles.  It's key to understanding why so many people complained SR won't
work.  Before I saw that I attributed it to dirty shutdowns and corrupted
restore points as the logical cause it failed, although of course there
could have been some others.
MSFT doesn't mention it anywhere on MSDN or Technet or any of their KBs on
SP1 or SR.  And wouldn't you agree that if I interpret it correctly, a whole
lot of people walked away from trying to use SR to save their system or make
a change believing SR was just not effective.  The guy from the SR team
never explained exactly how people were locked away from the restore point,
but if they didn't reach it, they weren't going to get the snapshot of the
registry back to before the problem they were trying to fix.
Right now the bar is down.  But I'm not pasting so much as a hyperlink so
there shouldn't be any html deployed and shouldn't even if I do paste a
hyperlink.  It would only become a problem if I did something with a font or
paragraph formatting, ect. wouldn't it? I'm not trying to run this into the
ground, or foist an OE problem on the XP group, but I know you can
straighten me out on this one.
Is there anything in this post that causes any html problems Jan or anyone
else outlined.  The checks or radio buttons  have been in the correct box
on the send tab, but it comes down and on this group for reasons that escape
me but not other MSFT public groups.  I can take that question to OE--I just
wonder if there is anything showing here that steps over the html line?  My
guess is no.
Thanks,
Chad Harris
  "Kelly" <kelly@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ujMw2CffEHA.3412@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
  Chad,
  I do appreciate your wanting to understand/critique things, but beings
this
  is an OE issue, perhaps you could visit the great guys and gals in the OE
  groups where this type of thing is discussed daily. :o)
  >I wasn't that upset, or trying to make a big deal out of this....
  Glad to hear and maybe it is time to move on?
  > Also I know you hae a reason for everything you say, and I was trying to
  > figure out what I didn't appreciate about the step of pasting into
  > notepad. If I'm missing something there, and you can also clarify what
  > shows up as html if the only thing you do is paste a hyperlink, I'd
  > appreciate it.
  This had to do with a mention you made about doing a copy and paste from a
  website.  Again, when you are doing so (because of formatting, etc) copy
it
  into Notepad before copying it here.  Simple!  :o)
  -- 
  All the Best,
  Kelly
  Microsoft-MVP Windows® XP
  2004 Windows MVP "Winny" Award
  Troubleshooting Windows XP
  http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
  "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  news:etD2nSSfEHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
  > Kelly--
  >
  > I wasn't that upset, or trying to make a big deal out of this,  just a
  > little miffed when Jan kept pushing the "lack of consideration by intent
  > element."  I'm pretty familiar with the  options tabs, although I can't
  > recite from rote what's on them, but after the first couple messages I
  > double checked to see if there was any stone I was leaving unturned,
and
  > why in the world the html formatting bar or whatever you want to call it
  > was showing up.  I made sure that I had the two places that address
plain
  > text configured for it on the send tab, and went over the "plain text
  > dialogue box" whose options I don't claim to understand perfectly even
  > after seeing them contexted in the IE box--but to make sure that they
  > wouldn't contribute.  So what I do if I see the bar is just to go to
  > format and select Plain Text and it goes away.
  >
  > Another thing that contributed to making html posts was when the html
bar
  > was down for whatever reason, I thought that if I wasn't going to do
  > anything but paste a hyperlink, (i.e. not underline or italicize or bold
  > type any words), then even if it had been set on html there would be
  > *nothing to show up as html*.  Obviously, this isn't the case.  I
  > understand from David that Ctrl+3 can give you that information and some
  > additional informaiton, but what puzzles me is *what would show as  html
  > or cause the bandwidth problems if you didn't have an off-sized font and
  > you didn't do anything else.
  >
  > Also I know you hae a reason for everything you say, and I was trying to
  > figure out what I didn't appreciate about the step of pasting into
  > notepad. If I'm missing something there, and you can also clarify what
  > shows up as html if the only thing you do is paste a hyperlink, I'd
  > appreciate it.
  >
  > Chad
  >
  >
_______________________________________________________________________________
  > "Kelly" <kelly@mvps.org> wrote in message
  > news:%23iDNpNRfEHA.140@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
  > Chad,
  >
  > I didn't mean to get you upset.  IF your settings were as you claim a
week
  > or so ago, this would not be happening, thus my thinking it was third
  > party.
  > IF and when you see the html bar appear, it means that you will be
posting
  > to the like, thus your settings aren't as you claimed.
  >
  > As for attachments, that is different than posting html.  Attachments
can
  > be
  > included via plain text and are on rare occasions here.
  >
  > -- 
  > All the Best,
  > Kelly
  >
  > Microsoft-MVP Windows® XP
  > 2004 Windows MVP "Winny" Award
  >
  > Troubleshooting Windows XP
  > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  > news:OoL1pDIfEHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
  >> It is getting old Kelly  The html bar I'm seeing as explicitly and
  >> expressly
  >> as I can convey it is native to OE (and as you say a component of
IE/XP)
  >> and
  >> it shows up if I click Format>Rich text>html.  *It's not part of any
3rd
  >> party app.*  It's native to OE meaning IE meaning XP. My question was
not
  >> *what notepad is or where I can find it*--it was introduced in Windows
95
  >> (and there are many free apps that are notepad on steroids like Notepad
  >> XP)--actually two different 3rd parties have that name--
  >>
  >> http://www.acsoftware.org/
  >>
  >> that have 10 X the features of Notepad,  but I didn't see the point of
  >> having to test paste a link into notepad if a plain link will show up
as
  >> in
  >> this message formatted in plain text--it just seemed like a wasted
step.
  >> But you always say things for a good reason, so I asked why and I'm
still
  >> asking why?
  >>
  >> For whatever  reason, once in a while when I open a new message or
reply
  >> message it shows up and if it does I click format and change back to
  >> plain
  >> text and it's gone.
  >>
  >> The ratio of times I posted in html versus plain text have been less
than
  >> .05% of posts.  And I still don't understand what the **huge deal is
  >> about
  >> posting in html*** partly for the reasons David Candy gave above, and
  >> because bold text  or underlining makes it easier than a lousy asterick
  >> to
  >> emphasize a phrase and allow it to stand out.  Italics have their place
  >> for
  >> the same reason you see them every where else.  Are there really that
  >> many
  >> on dial up who are *that compromised by an ocassional italic or bold
  >> word?*
  >> I wasn't talking about posting images or attachements, although there
  >> should
  >> be a mechanism for that to happen too.
  >>
  >> On one of the Office groups, because there have been an epidemic of
  >> problems
  >> installing Office 2003 SP1 requiring the Resource Kit tools and
  >> interpretation of Hotfix_MSI logs, MSFT has encouraged posting
  >> attachments
  >> of the logs.  It's the same kind of binary group as this one on the
NTTP
  >> newsreader.
  >>
  >> Best,
  >>
  >> Chad Harris
  >>
  >>
____________________________________________________________________________
  >> __
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> "Kelly" <kelly@mvps.org> wrote in message
  >> news:u8%23EG%23FfEHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
  >>> Chad,
  >>>
  >>> Not to be rude, but this is getting old.  Other than that, whatever
html
  >> bar
  >>> you are seeing and speaking of, is not native nor related to XP (thus
  >>> also
  >>> meaning OE).  And no, I didn't mean the URL, I meant the body.
Notepad
  >>> is
  >> a
  >>> simple text editor program that comes with all versions of Windows.
  >>>
  >>> -- 
  >>> All the Best,
  >>> Kelly
  >>>
  >>> Microsoft-MVP Windows® XP
  >>> 2004 Windows MVP "Winny" Award
  >>>
  >>> Troubleshooting Windows XP
  >>> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  >>> news:uG8HRkEfEHA.3028@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
  >>> > Kelly--
  >>> >
  >>> > I have noticed since this came up that sometimes the HTML bar kicks
in
  >>> > when
  >>> > I get ready to reply and I don't know why.  This is after several
  >>> > posts
  >> in
  >>> > plain text where plain text has been selected.
  >>> > If I see it, I switch to plain text, and if I was chain posting in
  >>> > html
  >> it
  >>> > wasn't meant to happen.
  >>> >
  >>> > The spell checker is not on the blink.  I don't use one, so I have
to
  >>> > watch
  >>> > the typos.  I can spell somewhat, and I dictionary the words I need
  >>> > help
  >>> > spelling.  I like it in Wordmail in OL, but here in OE news,  it
just
  >>> > drives
  >>> > me crazy because (although I understand it's supposed to have a
  >>> > learning
  >>> > curve) it stops on many words and software terms  that aren't
  >> misspelled.
  >>> > So I'll try to do a better job proofreading.
  >>> >
  >>> > I don't understand why you suggest that if you copy and paste from a
  >>> > website
  >>> > (I'm sure you mean the url here),  *you should to do it in notepad
  >> first.*
  >>> > If, and I don't understand the why of this exactly, as Jan said, in
  >>> > OE,
  >> in
  >>> > text mode all hyperlinks are clickable, so you can paste hyperlinks
in
  >>> > a
  >>> > plain text message and they are clickable, what do you gain by
opening
  >>> > notepad and pasting them in there first?
  >>> >
  >>> > Thanks,
  >>> >
  >>> > Chad Harris
  >>> >
  >>
____________________________________________________________________________
  >>> > __
  >>> >
  >>> >
  >>> >
  >>> > "Kelly" <kelly@mvps.org> wrote in message
  >>> > news:OWIklSseEHA.3428@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
  >>> >> Chad,
  >>> >>
  >>> >> Your spell checker seems to be misbehaving.  :o)  Other than that,
  >>> >> you
  >>> > were
  >>> >> posting in html, until this post.
  >>> >>
  >>> >> As for the latter:  Whenever you copy and paste from a website -
  >>> >> paste
  >> it
  >>> >> into Notepad first, then copy and paste again.
  >>> >>
  >>> >> -- 
  >>> >> All the Best,
  >>> >> Kelly
  >>> >>
  >>> >> Microsoft-MVP Windows® XP
  >>> >> 2004 Windows MVP "Winny" Award
  >>> >>
  >>> >> Troubleshooting Windows XP
  >>> >> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
  >>> >> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm
  >>> >>
  >>> >> Taskbar Repair Tool Plus!
  >>> >> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/taskbarplus!.htm
  >>> >>
  >>> >>
  >>> >> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  >>> >> news:esJ08YreEHA.2560@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
  >>> >> > Plato--
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > This is another convenience, but I think one of your best bets is
  >>> >> > to
  >>> >> > use
  >>> >> > the Accessbility chek box so that you can rheostat anythng you
see
  >>> >> > here.
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > Use Kelly's Tweak Line 227 Left:
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > Set IE Fonts to Smaller or Larger
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/regs_edits/iesmallertxt.reg
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > Best,
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > Chad Harris
  >>> >> >
  >> _______________________________________________________________________
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> > "Plato" <|@|.|> wrote in message
  >>> >> > news:41119f96$0$32094$45beb828@newscene.com...
  >>> >> >> Chad Harris wrote:
  >>> >> >>>
  >>> >> >>> There have been a number of installation errors  of the July
27th
  >>> >> >>
  >>> >> >> Since your going to post in html with a mini font, pick one that
  >>> >> >> is
  >>> > even
  >>> >> >> smaller to give my eyes an even better workout.
  >>> >> >>
  >>> >> >
  >>> >> >
  >>> >>
  >>> >>
  >>> >
  >>> >
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >>
  >