Re: Moving beyond "Tutorial: Building and Deploying a Run-Time Ima

From: Joe (Joe_at_discussions.microsoft.com)
Date: 07/23/04 

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:09:04 -0700

Dan & KM,

I was thinking about using the TAP.EXE, but was thinking, for some reason, that I needed WindowsXP running to use it...

Anyway... I did change the timeout to 10 seconds just to see if I got the boot up menu, but never saw it, just as you suspected.

I think I will try and use FAT instead of NTFS over the weekend and see if that gives me better results.

The geometry thing was making me wonder too.... the HD is a 850MB drive and when it is formated I get anywhere from 811 to 813 MB indications from different programs. The reason I was so worried about this is that in the Target Designer, I'm supposed to enter inthe size of my partition, I tried once with 811, once with 812 and a third time with 813, but none of them worked... I also wondered about the allocation unit size. I noticed that the 850MB hard drive wanted to use 1024 by default, but I made it 4096. I also did try 1024, but neither one worked (I made sure I formatted the HD with 1024 or 4096 and set the properties in Targer Designer to match each test).

Thanks again for all your replies. I was hoping this would be a little easier (it probably really is).

Joe

"KM" wrote:

> Dan,
>
> I don't think Joe's problem has anything to do with TA/TAP output. He does not seem to get passeed ntldr part yet. That is not a
> runtime image problem but rahter a disk geometry/MBR problem.
>
> Joe, just to confirm - do you see the ntldr boot menu? (put a non zero timeout in boot.ini to make sure you see the menu)
>
> If you don't see menu (which I would expect with the "Verifying DMI Pool Data..." message)...
> If you would use FAT, I suggested you to run fdisk from DOS and remove all partitions, then fdisk /mbr, and then partition and
> format the disk. But you are going with NTFS. I don't know why it is not working for you. Did you mark the partition as active?
>
> Any way for you to check the runtime with FAT first? (assuming you included FAT FS support in your image).
>
> --
> Regards,
> KM, BSquare Corp.
>
>
> > I don't know if you've tried this, but TAP.exe provides *much* better
> > results than TA. If possible, try running TAP.exe under Windows 98 to
> > provide a more complete picture for the devices in your system. If you're
> > missing a critical boot device, it might be the culprit.
> >
> > TA will sometimes try to "guess" at certain devices it can't identify. If
> > it fails to identify the correct device, it might hang the system. Some
> > things that TAP will not identify:
> >
> > ACPI (devices)
> > USB (devices)
> > 1394 (devices)
> > SCSI (devices)
> > PCMCIA (devices)
> > ISA (devices)
> > HAL (Will attempt best Guess)
> > CPU (Will attempt best Guess)
> > IDE (devices)
> > GKW (other)
> > Software enumerated devices
> >
> > TAP detects all of the above. TAP.exe can only be run in a 32-bit
> > environment, so if you can run Win98, that might help.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > --
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Joe" <Joe@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:A26BE68F-FC39-425E-995B-230072CE8054@microsoft.com...
> > > I guess this is the best place to put my reply. I thought of starting a
> > new thread.... I was hoping I could share with everybody a solution, or
> > explain what I did wrong, but I still haven't gotten it working.
> > >
> > > I did partition/format the disk in the development PC using NTFS. I then
> > copied the XPembedded files from the image directory onto the drive while it
> > was still in the development PC. I then moved the drive to the target PC and
> > tried to boot it. I believe everything is done correctly, it just hangs up
> > while booting up. I'm thinking now that it doesn't have anything to do with
> > the XPembedded files at all.
> > >
> > > When the PC is starting up, it hangs at some point and I get the following
> > text on the display, "Verifying DMI Pool Data...". After a search of the
> > web, I believe this is caused by some hardware problem, but i can't figure
> > out what it might be. I removed the HDD and CD-Rom and booted with a DOS
> > diskette with no problem. I connected the HDD and CD-ROM and booted with the
> > Windows98 Install CD with no problem. I then installed Windows98 on the
> > drive while it was in the target PC and "it" works fine.
> > >
> > > Then I put the HD back into the development PC, formatted it with NTFS and
> > copied the XPembedded back onto it. Put it into the target PC and it hangs
> > again.
> > >
> > > Oh well.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > "Slobodan Brcin (eMVP)" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Joe,
> > > >
> > > > If you partition/format disk from Windows XP/2000 you will have bootable
> > disk and partitions for both FAT and NTFS filesystems.
> > > > Also you must mark first partition as active to make bootable MBR.
> > > >
> > > > C:\ is volume letter, and it is assigned not to disk but to recognizable
> > partition during the boot time or you can preassign volume
> > > > letter you want from Target Designer.
> > > > command.com is obsolete and not used by XPe.
> > > >
> > > > XPe will see different volume letter order that XP on your development
> > machine. Algorithm is rather complex for this thread to
> > > > explain how volume letters are assigned.
> > > >
> > > > Read this for more info and you might find it useful some day:
> > > >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/community/community/tips/xp/rtpartin/default.aspx
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Slobodan
> > > >
> > > > "Joe" <Joe@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:DAE1A8A6-1003-4165-B3DE-2B1EE0AB035E@microsoft.com...
> > > > > KM & JC,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your attempts to help me out.
> > > > >
> > > > > KM: I have done just what you have described, but it didn't boot up.
> > Perhaps I will spend some time with the target PC, maybe it
> > > > just isn't even seeing the drive. Does just formatting it give it a
> > "boot sector"
> > > > >
> > > > > JC: From you other post you explain that I need only command.com,
> > boot.ini and NTLDR. I don't see a command.com (this is where I
> > > > thought that maybe formatting the drive as a second drive "D:\" in the
> > development PC doesn't set it as a "system" disk, so it won't
> > > > boot as the first drive "C:\" when it is put into the target PC).
> > Otherwise I believe that you mention the "ARC" path just as KM
> > > > did, and I set up the project just as KM described.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "KM" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the clarifications. It helps understading your issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In your PC configuration (when you prepeare the target drive as a
> > second
> > > > > > disk in development PC), you will need to:
> > > > > > - Partition and format the driver. If you want to use NTFS, you
> > don't
> > > > > > need to do anything else to make the disk bootable as NTFS boot
> > sector
> > > > > > already knows how to find ntldr on the disk.
> > > > > > - Build an image with directory settings set to C:\.... Arcpath
> > is
> > > > > > probably default: "multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)", asusming
> > you got
> > > > > > your disk on Primary Master channel in your target PC.
> > > > > > - [x]Copy the build to the target drive (D:\ on your dev
> > machine).
> > > > > > - Plug the drive in the target PC and enjoy "FBA show".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > KM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > KM,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was afraid I might have caused a bit of confusion. I will
> > describe the
> > > > > > two pc's I'm using and what I want to do.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PC #1: Developement PC running WindowsXP Pro
> > > > > > > C:\ This is the main drive of this PC and where WindowsXP Pro and
> > Embedded
> > > > > > Studio is installed.
> > > > > > > D:\ This is the "2nd" drive I added to complete the Tutorial. When
> > I leave
> > > > > > this drive in this PC I can do the dual boot thing as described in
> > the
> > > > > > Tutorial with no problems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PC #2: The "Target" PC
> > > > > > > The C:\ drive here is the D:\ drive from PC #1.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I created a WindowsXP Embedded system for PC #2 on PC #1 (remember
> > that PC
> > > > > > #1 is the "development PC) and copied it to the D:\ drive, I then
> > removed
> > > > > > the D:\ drive from PC #1 and put into PC #2 and it won't boot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I believe the problem is that in PC #1 the "Boot" information is
> > actually
> > > > > > on it's C:\ drive and to boot from it's D:\ drive it reads that
> > first. Then
> > > > > > when I put the D:\ drive into PC #2, it is now the C:\ drive, but
> > there is
> > > > > > not actually any "Boot" information on it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I do't know if there is a way to format the drive while is D:\ in
> > PC #1 as
> > > > > > NTFS with "system" files like you used to beable to with the DOS
> > format
> > > > > > utility.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was hoping that all I would need to do is to change the Target
> > Device
> > > > > > Settings in my project to reflect that the D:\ Drive will now be the
> > C:\
> > > > > > drive int he Target PC.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hope that clears it up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "KM" wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From your message I couldn't quite get whether you are able to
> > plug the
> > > > > > > > drive in to a machine (with XP Pro, or XPe installed) as a
> > second drive?
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > you can, why not format it from there since you want NTFS on it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, you don't need that 2nd drive to be bootable if you
> > already have a
> > > > > > > > bootable disk in your target PC. Just set up boot.ini on the
> > system
> > > > > > drive
> > > > > > > > (1st bootable drive) to load OS from that 2nd drive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I feel like we are going to get confused with the disk numbers
> > you are
> > > > > > > > reffering to (1st, 2nd, etc.).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > KM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have "sucessfully" built an XP embedded system using the
> > "Tutorial:
> > > > > > > > Building and Deploying a Run-Time Image", and it wasn't easy
> > I'll tell
> > > > > > ya.
> > > > > > > > The main problem is getting a development system to match the
> > prescribed
> > > > > > > > system in the tutorial. I can't add a second hard drive on my
> > main PC,
> > > > > > but I
> > > > > > > > was "provided" a back-up system (a pentium II with a hard drive
> > just
> > > > > > barely
> > > > > > > > large enough to contain the system and studio files and a second
> > hard
> > > > > > drive)
> > > > > > > > for development!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Following the tutorial I made an embedded system based on the
> > hardware
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > my development PC and everything went fine.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now I want to make an embedded system based on hardware
> > different from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > development system. I obtained a *.pmq file for the "target"
> > hardware
> > > > > > (yet
> > > > > > > > another long story since the target PC won't boot the WinXP PE
> > because
> > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > > video card incompatability I think, so I used an old DOS 6.22
> > disk to
> > > > > > boot
> > > > > > > > and run the TA.EXE file). I started a new project and built an
> > image in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same manner as the tutorial only using the target hardware *.pmq
> > file
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > copied it to the 2nd hard drive. I was hoping I would be able to
> > remove
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > 2nd hard drive from the developement PC and put it in the target
> > PC (to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > the 1st disk, I did set the settings in the project to recognise
> > the HD
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > C:\), but it didn't work. I presume because the 2nd hard drive
> > isn't
> > > > > > > > bootable?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So the question is, how would I make the 2nd hard drive
> > bootable, if
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > think that is the problem? I didn't see anyway to do it using
> > the disk
> > > > > > > > management on the development PC. I can't use the WinXP PE
> > (remember,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > target PC won't boot with it). I even tried just using the
> > WindowsXP
> > > > > > > > installation disk to see if there are utilities in it I can use
> > to make
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > , but it won't boot either!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I could try and use the old DOS 6.22 disk again, but I wanted
> > to be
> > > > > > able
> > > > > > > > to use NTFS.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks again,
> > > > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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