Re: BIOS - COULD THERE A PROBLEM WITH MY PC'S BIOS?

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:53:00 -0700, InfoHungry
<InfoHungry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Sorry Ken I have offended you with all the capital letters.


No, no--I wasn't offended. I was just pointing out that it's difficult
and uncomfortable to read. Because of that, I usually don't bother,
and just skip to the next message. I made an exception in your case,
because we had already started together, and because you clearly
didn't understand the difficulties of dealing with all caps.


I had no
intention whatsoever of upsetting of offending you in any way. My only
intention was just to highlight my answers as I was replying into a reply
with other replies in it.



Your text is differentiated from quoted text by not having the > in
front of it, as mine is here. That works fine. Nothing else is
required.


My deep appologies. I need the help of the experts
in the forum and I am getting good help, it was silly of me not thinking
about that detail. I hoped it would be clear from the language that I did not
mean any harm.


No offense taken and no apology necessary. I was just trying to point
out for the future that all-caps text might be ignored by many of us.
It's likely to get you less help.




"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:50:01 -0700, InfoHungry
<InfoHungry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


HI KEN, HOPE ALL IS WELL.

I HAVE GOTTEN OVER MY MAJOR HURDDLE WITH MY BOOKKEEPING PROGRAM. IT IS
ALMOST BACK TO HOW I LAST LEFT IT. I JUST HAVE TO TIE UP SOME LOOSE ENDS
TOMORROW. SO NOW I KNOW I HAVE A "GOOD BACK UP" OF IT ON DISC.
PLEASE SCROLL DOWN, THANK YOU.


You're welcome. But for the future, please do *not* post in all
capitals. It's very hard on the eyes, and it feels like you're
shouting at me.

Sorry again, i had been compiling my reply for an hour and when I posted i
got bombed out at 2 am in Down Under and had to redo it. My eyes were going
square so i used the capital to make it easier to see my new answers, believe
me I did not intend to shout at you in this way. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Please
forgive me.

Normally, I would ignore a message like this with all these capitals,
but since we've started corresponding about your issue, I'll make an
exception for you, and read it and continue. See below.



You're welcome. Glad to help.

AND YOU DON'T IMAGINE HOW GLAD I AM THAT YOU CAN AND ARE HELPING ME, THANK
YOU SO MUCH.


You're welcome again.


No, you don't necessarily need third-party software. You get extra
capability using third-party software, but depending on your needs,
just copying them is often fine.

I TRIED THAT BUT COULD NOT COPY THAT WAY, I GUESS I HAVE NOT YET FIGURED OUT
HOW TO DO THAT PROPERLY.



It depends on what you are trying to copy. See point 2, quoted
immediately below.


2. For various reasons, you can't just make a copy of the C: drive
using standard Windows facilities. If that's what you want to do, you
need third-party software. However you *can* copy your data files that
way; just be sure you copy to external devices.

FOR THE 2 POINTS ABOVE: I DID INDEED DO COPIES TO CD/DVD AND EXTERNAL DRIVE.
IT IS THE INTEGRITY OF THE COPIES THAT WORRIES ME


Look at what you've copied. Open the files.

I have been cheking the folders and files within are the same and also their
size. Most of them are the same. some are empty. I will do a more thorough
check on the weekend.


AND ALSO I DO NOT KNOW IF I
HAVE ALL THE "ESSENTIAL" FILES THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO RUN PROPERLY.


Not everyone wants to back up all the files the system needs to run
properly. Read below for the two approaches to backup.


I NOW HAVE
ALL MY PROGRAMS AND VIP FILES ON DISCS. PUTTING THEM BACK INTO THE SYSTEM
CORRECTLY AFTER FORMATTING IS ANOTHER WORRY FOR ME -



There are two very different approach to backup.

1. You can create an image (or clone) of your entire drive (usually on
a removable hard drive). That requires special software to do it. It
can not be done by simply copying files. If you do that, and the
original drive dies, all you need to do is replace the original drive,
then restore your image to the new drive.

2. You can back up individual files that contain important data, not
everything on the drive. If you lose the original drive in that
scenario, what you have to do is acquire a new drive, reinstall
Windows on it, then reinstall all your programs and restore you
backed-up data. Note carefully that what you can *not* do is restore
backed up programs. A backup of a program is useless, because all
programs (except for a rare tiny one) have many associated files and
references to themselves within Windows, in the registry and
elsewhere. If you reinstall Windows, all of that is lost, and the
programs won't run.

Since you say "I NOW HAVE ALL MY PROGRAMS ... ON DISCS," you
apparently weren't aware of this. Except as part of an image or clone
of the entire drive, backing up programs is a waste of time and
effort.

Sorry, I meant to say I have original instalation cds for the programs.
And yes i was not aware that the programs would be useless if "copied"
unless it is done as you mentioned above, as image/clone with Acronis or
another sililar software. I think I got the idea now. ( did copy them as
well, but "not" with image /clone method as I do not as yet have that sort of
software,
so those discs can now go in the garbage so I do not get confused and try to
use them.)


Well, what's on the CDs? Although you can't use any programs copied to
them, you can use any data that's there. So unless you're sure it's
just programs, I wouldn't be too quick to throw them away. And, as I
said, an occasional small program is self-contained, and can work
without having any entries in \Windows.



Some programs have been downloaded, (Express Burn/Rip) but I can re-download them - I have checked with the manufacturer and I know what to do to reactivate my licences, I did order the cds, in case I loose internet connection, so I should have them soon.
I AM NOT 100% SURE IF IT
IS STRAIGHT FORWARD ENOUGH FOR ME TO DO - IF I JUST HAVE TO COPY THEM BACK
THAT IS OK, I THINK.


For data, yes. For programs, no. See above.

Ok. I am much clearer on the back up now. I think I would benefit from
having an 'image" - I learnt from this forum that I need Acronis True Image
or Norton Ghost to do that.


Not necessarily. Those are *two* choices, but there are others.
Personally I like Acronis True Image the best, and I dislike anything
from Norton.


I personally prefer imaging my drive to having just data backups.
That's because I have invested substantial time and effort in
customizing Windows and my applications to work the way I like them
to. If I had only data backed up, and lost my drive, yes I could
restore the data and reinstall the apps, but I would lose all that
customization. Putting it back the way I like it would take me many
extra hours or days

Other people run much more vanilla systems, and for them, backing up
just data can be fine.


so I understand that with copies of my data I
should be good because i do have the sofware for programs and the items that
are connected to the box. Yes ???


Yes.


Like printer, webcam, mouse, keyboard,
handycam/photo camera, mobile phone, iPod and MP4, and I have the cds for
the motherboard, windows, drivers, MS Office, bookkeeping as well ( these are
not copies, they are the originals).



FOR NOW I DO NOT REALLY WANT A "COPY" OF MY HARD DRIVES BECAUSE THEY ARE
VERY MESSED UP. I WILL WANT TO DO IT WHEN MY SYSTEM IS "CLEAN" AND WORKING
WELL THOUGH. FOR NOW I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I COPY ALL NECESSARY FILES - I
HAVE BEEN LOOKING BUT COULD NOT FIND A "LIST" OF FILES THAT ARE IMPERATIVE TO
HAVE TO ENABLE ME TO GET THE PC TO WORK AFTER FORMATING OR SYSTEM FAILURE.


You can't find it because it doesn't exist. To repeat what I said
above, what you would need to do is

1. Reinstall Windows.
2. Reinstall all your programs.
3. Copy your data files back to the drive.

Notice that in step 3, I said "data files." That's why such a list
doesn't exist. Nobody but you knows what data files you have.


Ok. Say i go to Word and type a letter and save it in a folder, or I dowload
photos or movies form my camera, they become my data files. I understand i
need to copy those which I have on cd and on external drive as well.


No, you don't *need* to copy them to both places. If you reinstall
Windows cleanly, you'll need to restore your data, but you only
restore from one place. On the other hand, even though you don't
*need* to, having two copies, one on a CD and one on an external
driver, protects you against the possibility that a single backup
might be unreadable. Just like originals, backup disks *can* fail too.


My bookkeeping program has an inbuilt backup facility and it backs up to
this folder outside of itself. If I did't know about this, and did not copy
that particular folder, even if I reinstalled the program I would not be able
to restore my work. I learnt how to restore these.

Are the backup logs part of my data?


Sorry, what backup logs are these?


what about the files that internet security puts in quarantine? Do I need to
copy those?


Generally not. But what internet security? What files?


I have now copied my Favorites - I did not realise that I could and should
copy them or back that up. ( duh)
I thought that I would find "all" my data in the "My Documents" folder I am
probably wrong again.



Two points here:

1. Things like favorites, E-mail, and contact lists are not normally
kept in My Documents. If you want to save what's there, they will need
to be backed up separately.

Even application programs like Word don't necessarily always save in
My Documents. My Documents is the default (almost always, but some
programs *could* do it differently), but whenever you save a file, you
*could* change the location from the default.

In all probability, all your data except for favorites, E-mail, and
contacts will be in My Documents. I don't mean to scare you, but for
the sake of completeness, I wanted to point out that some (or even
all) of it could be elsewhere. I can't tell you where your programs
store their data, not do I know whether you have ever not used the
defaults. All I can do is caution you to look around carefully. Since
you're the one who created the files, you should recognize the names
of any data files that are elsewhere.



clicked each respective COPY folder one at
a time and clicked PASTE. Had a lot of warnings saying something to the
effect that "this file could not be copied" and at this point I had the "show
system files" "show hidden files" on. so That does not seem to be a reliable
back up.


No, it's not. See point 1, above.

JUST AS I THOUGHT. SO APART FROM FILES THAT I CREATE MYSELF (LETTERS,
PHOTOS, FAMILY MOVIES, BOOKKEEPING FILES) WHAT OTHER FILES DO I NEED TO COPY
SO I HAVE ALL ABSOLUTELY NECESSATY FILES TO BE USED ON SYSTEM FAILURE OR
HARD DRIVE FORMATTING/WINDOWS REINSTALL?


See above. You are misunderstanding the difference between the two
approaches to backup.

Yes I was very confused with this. I know I do not have an image copy, so I
would have to work from a back up to do a restore (and here, at the moment I
would be restoring the present problems) or
I format, reinstall OS, periferals and programs and then copy my data files
back in afterwards,
or
just try to clean it up first.( a daunting task for sure).

If I do it myself and stuff up the process, is the worse case scenario, a
professional should be able to undo/redo FIX it up? Or are there things that
can happen that I could render my machine totaly unrecoverable? and in need
to get a new pc ?


No, no. There's no risk of physical damage to the computer. The risk
is to your data (and your nerves).



If you need a driver for the DVD drive, you should be able to download
it from the manufacturer's web site.


OK THEN. DO THEY NEED KEYS? I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY OF THESE.


Do you mean software keys? Highly unlikely.

Yes that is is what I meant. so I am good with this point too. I was not
sure.


Sorry, but I can almost never make that decision for someone else.
I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER ABOVE AND APPOLOGISE, I JUST NEED TO ESTABLISH
CLEARLY IN MY HEAD IF I HAVE WHAT I NEED IN CASE I NEED TO FORMAT.


See above. You need your Windows CD, installation CDs for all your
software, and backups of your data.


ALSO I
THOUGHT THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE FOUND SOME CLUE AS TO THE STATE OF MY SYSTEM FROM
THE INFO I POSTED LAST. UNFORTUNATELY THAT DID NOT PROVIDE ANYTHING
CONCRETE... SO FOR NOW I THINK I SHOULD CLEAN UP SOME OF THE MESSY FOLDERS
AND TRY TO DO A FRESH BACK UP, HOW DOES THIS REASONING COME ACROSS TO YOU?


Again, I can't make that decision for you, but based on what you've
said it sounds like it might likely be the best course.



FOR THE ABOVE: I WOULD DEFINITELY WOULD HAVE TO TREAD VERY CAREFULLY AND
WITH VERY GOOD AND CLEAR, COMPLETE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS IN WHAT RELATES
TO BIOS.


Except changing the boot order to enable you to boot from the CD, so
you can do a clean reinstallation, forget about the BIOS. It isn't
involved with this at all.

Ok, here I think I should be able to manage that after educationg myself a
little more on the subject.

I HAVE NOT GONE IN THERE TO CHANGE ANYTHING, EVER. IF I NEED TO ..


Opening the case should not be needed.

Great, what a relief, anyway I would have to find a reliable technitian then
because I don't think I would dare myself to do any of that and risk causing
myself more problems.


As an aside, because it's not really pertinent here, although the
inside of the case may appear daunting, it really needn't be. Changing
or adding hardware in the case is really easy. It isn't much different
than plugging the components of a stereo system together; the only
real difference is that with a computer, the plugging-in is done
inside the box.

The only real risk is accidentally zapping components with static
electricity, so you want to be sure you've discharged yourself to a
ground before putting your hands inside.

But as always, if you've never done it before, it helps to have
someone who has done it work with you the first time.



CUSTOMISING I DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF THINGS DONE BUT I AM CONFIDENT I CAN
BRING IT ALL BACK EASILY. I HAD TO DO THAT WHEN THE SECOND HARD DRIVE WAS PUT
IN.

FORMATING BASIC SHOULD BE OK BUT I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT PARTITIONS OR
SIMILER THINGS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM INSTALLING PRINTER,CAMERA, PROGRAMS
I FORMATED MY EXTERNAL DRIVE FROM FAT32 TO NTFS BEFORE USING IT TO BACKUP
BUT IT WAS QUITE STRAIGHT FORWARD.
I DEFINITELY HAVE DIFFICULTIES WITH START UP CONFIGURATION. I KNOW I HAVE
TOO MANY PROCESS RUNNING THAT SHOULD NOT BE, BUT I AM READING UP ON IT.
I DO HAVE A LOT OF CLUTTER SUCH AS: LEFT OVER FILES FROM UNINSTALLED
PROGRAMS - 840 ENTRIES THAT DO NOT WORK IN THE REGISTRY, AND GOD KNOWS HOW
MUCH SPYWARE/MALAWARE GONE UNDETECTED THAT I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIND AND
CLEAN. IF FILES HAVE TO BE DELETED I AM NEVER SURE IF IT WILL AFFECT THE
SYSTEM AND OTHER PORGRAMS.

NOW FOR ANOTHER QUESTION TO HELP ME CLEAN UP A BIT: IS IT SAFE TO DELETE THE
FOLDERS I CREATED OF "COPY OF C" AND "COPY OF D"? WINDOWS WAS COPIED AS WELL.
IT RUNS IN MY EXTERNAL DRIVE IF I CHANGE THE BOOT.INI. I AM SCARED THAT IF I
DELETE THOSE FILES IT MIGHT DO SOMETHING WRONG TO THE ORIGINAL FILES IN THE
HARD DRIVES. AT ONE POINT MY EXTERNAL DRIVE SHOWED AS "MBR" IN DISK
MAHAGEMENT. PLEASE EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE BUT THIS IS VERY PUZZLING FOR ME. I
KNOW THEY ARE "COPIES" BUT I AM ASKING JUST IN CASE IT CAUSES ME MORE GRIEF.
PLEASE ADVISE



Since it appears that you will be reformatting and reinstalling,
there's no question of whether it's safe to delete anything on the
drive. When you reformat, *everything* gets deleted, so there's no
need to delete anything in advance.

To reformat and reinstall, just boot from the Windows XP CD (change
the BIOS boot order if necessary to accomplish this) and follow the
prompts for a clean installation (delete the existing partition by
pressing "D" when prompted, then create a new one).

You can find detailed instructions here:
http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

or here
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org/how_do_i_install_windows_xp.htm

or here http://windowsxp.mvps.org/XPClean.htm

or here http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm


One more point here, and it's an important one. Please don't feel
insulted, but it's very clear from the questions you ask, and some of
your misunderstandings that you are a beginner at this. I'm very
concerned that if you were to attempt this by yourself, you might not
succeed. It would be wise to enlist the help of a more knowledgeable
friend who could work along with you and show you what to do. It might
even be worth it to pay a professional (and by "professional," I do
*not* mean an employee of CompUSA, Best Buy, or some similar store.
Look for a local service person who comes recommended by other people
in your area, such as your local PC users' group).

No ofense taken, that is the pure reality and I agree with you on the above
and that is why I am asking so many questions, to figure out wether I can do
this myself or if I best leave it to someone with the knowledge . finding a
reliable person or place is the hardest part because that was my very first
step but the repairer refused to help me back up my data and here I am in
this mess. I am looking for another technician in my area.
Then again I am learning and the only good way to learn sometimes is by the
mistakes I make


That's very true, but sometimes that kind of learning can be very
costly. I don't know how important your data is to you, but to many of
us, losing it would be a traumatic experience.


but please don't get me wrong, I will not attempt it unless I
have the necessary help at hand, or I might just get tired of investigating
and take the box to the techn if I find a recomended one.
I should know if I can do it myself after studying the websites you have
recomended above. I am off to go and do that right now.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Thanks again.


You're welcome. Glad to help.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
.

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