Re: Saving an Internet Explorer STATIC Web Page

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From: Jim Macklin (p51mustang[threeX12)
Date: 11/27/04 

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:42:58 -0600

CutePDF is also free and works well as a printer (to a PDF
file). 

-- 
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
"_Vanguard_" 
<see.signature@email.without.passcode.is.invalid> wrote in 
message news:O%23QZExM1EHA.3452@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
| "Flemming Knudsen" 
<FlemmingKnudsen@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
| message 
news:EF57F7A1-231D-41D9-ADC6-869DFA3A5219@microsoft.com...
| > Hi Eric
| > I think that you mentioned the right solution in your 
original
| > posting.
| > Use Adobe Acrobat or another PDF generating software.
| > There is a very nice and cheap piece of software on 
www.pdfprinter.dk.
| > Unfortunately this home page is in Danish, but you can 
download a
| > fully
| > functional version from it.
| > Select the PRO version. It will watermark your your 
pages if you write
| > more
| > than 5. It does not expire. From IE it only prints the 
selected frame.
| > On the
| > first tab in the properties sheet you can change the 
language to
| > English.
| > There are add-ins for Word and Excel
| > For ordering info write info@pdfprinter.dk
| >
| > Apart from that, I thing that you have a lousy Internet 
bank if it
| > doesn't
| > have the option of downloading your account info as a 
Excel file.
| >
| > Best regards
| > Flemming
| >
| > "Eric Anderson" wrote:
| >
| >> I understand what you are trying to say.  Let me try to 
explain what
| >> I think
| >> should happen by answering your comments.  Obviously, 
what I believe
| >> does
| >> not matter a hill of beans, but I think that when I 
SAVE something, I
| >> should
| >> have total control of it after that time.  If someone 
wants to remove
| >> it
| >> from their site, I have SAVED it so I can recover it 
whenever I want
| >> to.
| >> What good is saving something if it isn't saved (in 
total).  I
| >> respond to
| >> your specific comments below.  I do understand what you 
are saying,
| >> and I
| >> would like your take on my comments.
| >>
| >> "_Vanguard_" 
<see.signature@email.without.passcode.is.invalid> wrote
| >> in
| >> message news:ec#zRn$0EHA.1408@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
| >> >>
| >> > When you attempt to *save* the page, the browser is 
going to *try*
| >> > to
| >> > yank all the components that were included in that 
page, some of
| >> > which
| >> > is text, some of which might be linked images to 
files that contain
| >> > those images, and some might be *generated* content 
which never
| >> > does
| >> > exist in the STATIC web page but gets created when 
you visit that
| >> > page
| >> > (and that page may not even exist on their server any 
might get
| >> > completed generated on-the-fly and that content sent 
to your
| >> > browser).
| >>
| >> On a computer, everything is generated in some way.  A 
Word file is
| >> assembled by the Microsoft Word application in memory. 
When a person
| >> saves
| >> a web page, which is more important--being able to 
recreate the
| >> static view
| >> being displayed on the screen or (at the whim of a 
remote server
| >> still
| >> having the content) being able to recreate the exact 
dynamic
| >> presentation
| >> that existed before?  I THINK that is what we are 
talking about here.
| >> What
| >> is the usefulness of saving a web page over saving a 
favorite that
| >> allows
| >> you to point to the page where the original page was 
generated.
| >>
| >> > If the web site is using a script or program to 
generate content
| >> > on-the-fly then that content won't be available when 
the browser
| >> > simply
| >> > attempts to yank all the components on that page.  IE 
saving a web
| >> > page
| >> > will attempt to yank the components from that page. 
I'm sure you
| >> > have
| >> > noticed the download dialog window that pops up when 
you attempt to
| >> > save
| >> > a web page.  Saving the web page does NOT store the 
*rendered*
| >> > version
| >> > of that page as you see it at a specific time under 
certain
| >> > conditions.
| >>
| >> I hear you, but I think THAT is what I want.  When I 
try to save a
| >> page, I
| >> am trying to save the content I see on the screen at 
that time.  I am
| >> not
| >> trying to save the entire ability of pulling up records 
from a remote
| >> server
| >> which might occupy Terabytes.  I want to save a plan on 
how to build
| >> a
| >> woodworking project.  I am trying to save a monthly 
statement (so I
| >> can
| >> refer to it a year later).  I am trying to save a 
newspaper story
| >> (which may
| >> be removed by the publisher) to refer to it later.  If 
I want to
| >> search a
| >> database or work with dynamic information that the 
server on line can
| >> provide me, I will choose a favorite and link to the 
website itself.
| >>
| >> > You might have IE in a small-sized window, or 
expanded to display
| >> > fullscreen, or you might be navigating to the site 
from some other
| >> > site
| >> > that leaves its frame in that browser's window so the 
next site or
| >> > page
| >> > only gets to use a portion of the browser's window.
| >> >
| >> If I am reading you correctly, I could have Word in a 
small window,
| >> that
| >> does not mean that the Word file I save is not able to 
be totally
| >> regenerated when I open Word again and go full screen. 
Again, I am
| >> not
| >> expecting a dynamic window.  I just want the equivalent 
of my Word
| >> file back
| >> again.  Hell, many times the picture content exists in 
saving the
| >> website
| >> complete, they are just not displayed for some reason.
| >>
| >> > If you want to save the web page, that means you want 
to yank the
| >> > components of that web page and THAT is what you are 
attempting to
| >> > save.
| >>
| >> Yes.
| >>
| >> > Not all components can be yanked, especially if they 
are generated
| >> > by a
| >> > script or program.  If you want to save exactly what 
you see on
| >> > your
| >> > screen in the current instance of the browser's 
window as it got
| >> > rendered under THAT environment then get a screen 
capture program.
| >>
| >> They can be yanked at the time you are saving them 
because they are
| >> yanked
| >> to be displayed on your screen.  I don't want a screen 
capture
| >> program
| >> because the page may be several screens long.  I just 
want to save
| >> what I am
| >> seeing.
| >> >
| >> > There is no such thing as a STATIC page when IE is 
rendering the
| >> > HTML
| >> > code in that web page.  Text might be centered but 
obviously
| >> > centering
| >> > depends on how wide is the viewing area for the HTML 
document.
| >> > Lots of
| >> > positioning depends on the viewing area and its 
dimensions.  If you
| >> > actually could save a static copy when your browser 
window occupied
| >> > half
| >> > the size of the screen then looking at it in a 
browser window that
| >> > was
| >> > fullscreen would still only occupy half of the screen 
(minus the
| >> > space
| >> > that was occupied by the browser's toolbars).  A 
table that uses
| >> > fixed
| >> > width columns would scroll off to the right of your 
browser's
| >> > current
| >> > window size.  You can scroll over to see the rest but 
not if you
| >> > only
| >> > saved a static copy of exactly what you saw in the 
browser's window
| >> > before scrolling (and all you would see if you did 
scroll over
| >> > would be
| >> > that half of the page when you view it later).
| >> >
| >> Mmmm.  If I were to choose, I would ask the SAVE 
operation to save it
| >> so I
| >> could render it so I could scroll just as I would when 
I was looking
| >> at the
| >> data on my screen originally.  I would not ask it to 
render new data
| >> or data
| >> that was up to date at the time I retrieved the saved 
file.
| >>
| >> Chuck said simply--print to file.  I guess that is what 
I want.
| >> Stupid
| >> me--I need to understand how to retrieve the damn thing 
after I do
| >> that.
| >> But I guess that is what I want.  An Adobe Acrobat 
print to file
| >> would do
| >> the trick for me.
| >>
| >> > The HTML document is full of code and THAT is what 
you are
| >> > attempting to
| >> > save.  If some of that content is generated 
on-the-fly then it
| >> > might not
| >> > be available when you try to yank it.  And any 
server-side programs
| >> > that
| >> > are used by the page will not get downloaded when you 
save the page
| >> > (i.e., you do not get to save a copy of their 
program).  If you
| >> > truly
| >> > want a STATIC copy of exactly what you see on the 
screen, get a
| >> > screen
| >> > capture utility.
| >> >
| >> Again, I don't want a screen capture utility--not even 
an elegant
| >> one.  I
| >> want to print to a file I can reload into something to 
view it
| >> EXACTLY as I
| >> saw it 6 months ago--no changes.  I want my magazine 
article to be
| >> the same
| >> as when I first viewed it.  I want my woodworking plan 
the same as it
| >> is
| >> statically on my browser.  I want my bank statement 
EXACTLY as it was
| >> when I
| >> saved it (not controlled by the bank which could have 
changed it
| >> since I
| >> last looked at it).  HOW DO I DO THAT!!???
| >> Since it was first viewed in a browser in IE, it would 
make sense to
| >> be able
| >> to load it into an IE brower window to view it once 
again with NO
| >> CHANGES.
| >> If I want to see how the data looks NOW 6 months later, 
I will go to
| >> the web
| >> site.  That is what saving a favorite is for.  If I 
want to save
| >> something,
| >> I want to see something just as it was when I saved it.
| >>
| >> Sorry about this, but I think the concept is important.
| >> > --
| >> >
| >>
| >>
| >>
|
|
| Well, if *printing* to a file saves more than what a file 
save does, and
| if you want it in PDF format, you could use CutePDF or 
PDFCreator to
| create .pdf files, and both are free.  It could be that 
printing the
| document as it is rendered (i.e., what you see) would work 
for you as
| opposed to yanking the content of the site (of which some 
might be
| generated on-the-fly so you can't yank it).
|
| http://www.cutepdf.com/
| https://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/
|
| There are no watermarks or other adware/demoware/crapware 
in these
| products (i.e., they don't attempt to promote you to their 
paid version
| to rid of some crap they add).  For CutePDF, there is a 
blurb in the
| print dialog promoting their paid version.  PDFCreator is 
open
| sourceware and there is no promotional crap anywhere 
(because there is
| no commercial version of the software to upgrade to). 
Back in February
| when I looked at these two products, I choose PDFCreator 
because
| PDFCreator has an Options page where resolution can be 
adjusted whereas
| CutePDF requires you to edit a text file.  I never did 
test them for
| speed as to which was faster in generating the PDF file, 
but since both
| rely on the same Ghostscript program to do the actual 
conversion then I
| suspect they are nearly equal in performance.  However, 
they obviously
| won't provide every feature possible within a PDF file 
that, say, Adobe
| Acrobat (and its Distiller) will provide.  The install for 
PDFCreator is
| easier because it includes the install of Ghostscript 
whereas you need
| to separately install Ghostscript first before installing 
CutePDF (they
| have a link to Ghostscript on CutePDF's download page).
|
| That doesn't mean that what you print will be exactly what 
got rendered
| by a browser.  For example, if you navigate to 
http://www.comcast.net/
| which uses Flash to display its content, some flash 
content might be
| missing.  Also, they use layers to paint the web page so 
the printed
| version will show those layers separate of each other (you 
see one layer
| on one page and another layer on a different page inside 
the PDF file
| generated by printing to a file).  If you print (to PDF 
file) the
| http://www.msn.com/ page, it looks similar but not exactly 
the same as
| what you saw in the browser that rendered all the code, 
retrieved the
| image files, and submitted or initiated programs or 
scripts that
| generated more content.  If you print (to PDF file) the
| http://www.expedia.com page, the right-side of the page 
gets truncated.
| Even switching to landscape mode to get wider printing 
might still not
| be wide enough to encompass a very wide page, like a huge 
table with
| dozens of rows.
|
| Old HTML was geared towards generating static documents. 
DHTML, CSS,
| and other technologies since added are not designed to be 
viewable by
| saving them because not everything is there to save.
|
| -- 
| 
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