Re: W2K SP4 Hosed our PC - Need Help !!!
From: Steve N. (NoOne_at_nunya.biz)
Date: 03/01/04
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Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:32:40 GMT
Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:
> "Steve N." wrote:
>
>
>>Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:
>>
>>>And this was said about SP3 and SP2 and <fill in any service pack to
>>>any MS OS here> as well. By listening to all those advises you would
>>>end up not installing any service pack ever ;-)
>>>
>>>For most computers, a SP install will go well, but of course, some
>>>computers will get into trouble.
>>>
>>>We have installed SP4 on thousands of computers, and only a few
>>>had issues afterwards.
>>
>>Yes, but a FEW did, didn't they? Why do you suppose that is?
>
>
> I would think that most of those computers were mis-configured in
> some way or in a "shaky" state before the service pack upgrade.
I would too, had I not seen enough evidence first hand to the contrary.
>
>
>
>>And what do
>>you consider to be an acceptible failure rate?
>
>
> I would say somewhere between 0.5 and 1% is an acceptable failure rate.
> I don't have exact numbers for the failure rate for our SP4 upgrades,
> but it is less than 0.5%
At my home I have had 100% failure rate. At work I cnservatively
estimate close to 50% failure rate. (See below)
>
>
>
>>What if that failure rate
>>is only 5% but YOUR personal computer just happens to be in that 5%? How
>>does that make YOU feel? People are frustrated, all they want to do is
>>use the computer they paid hard earned money for but instead they spend
>>hours, even days just trying to get the damn thing to boot up after
>>blindly following what the all-knowing Big Brother insisted they do.
>
>
> Yes, I know it is very frustrating for those that it happens for,
> especially if you did not make a backup of your data or system before
> the upgrade (even if the SP install tells you that ou should make
> one before continuing with the install).
Backups are indeed good practice, but that's not really the point. The
point is that SP4 causes problems for a lot of people and Microsoft (and
you) are ignoring it (for the time being anyway). Instead of
recommending backups and making blanket statements, how about trying to
help figure out exactly WHAT is broken in SP4?
>
>
>
>>M$ pushes the updates and SPs at us, convincing us they are needed
>>when they are not necessarily needed.
>
>
> Our SP4 rollout has been mostly driven by security issues, having an
> old service pack level makes it very complicated trying to have
> control over all security updates needed for different configurations
> and installed components and applications.
The only SP level I am aware of being absolutely necessary for recent
critical security updates currently offered by M$ is SP2, which oddly
enough, although there have been reports of SP2 being problematic, I
have never seen any trouble with. I have not seen many problems with SP3
either.
>
>
>
>>You know what's needed? A stable OS, a decent a/v package, properly
>>configured firewall and a little common sense concerning safe computing.
>>Win2k SP2 and SP3 are proven fairly stable to me (and I deal with a
>>pretty big number of computers, too.) Other than just plain crappy OEM
>>pre-installs (usually from Dell) I have had very little problems with
>>W2K as long as we stopped at SP3, kept a/v up to date and did regular
>>disk maintenance.
>>
>>For what it's worth, for over two years I used Win2K raw, with NO
>>updates or service packs applied at ALL and NEVER had a serious problem.
>>
>>But you're right, the same thing has been said about ALL service packs.
>> Have you ever wondered why? Do you think people just make this stuff up?
>
>
> No, I don't think people make this stuff up, but using e.g. newsgroup
> postings as a part of the assessment on how good a service pack is,
> isn't really fair, because that is the place where people go to when
> they have problems, and not when everything is hunky-dory.
Where else are you going to hear about it? I am sure there are hundreds
of thousands of PC happily churning away with Win2K SP4, but for a
growing number this is not the case.
My PERSONAL assesment of SP4 is based on direct experience, not just
what I read here or elsewhere. For example, I have three Win2K Pro
machines at my home. One has been running flawlessly for about 3 years.
Another has been for over a year. Another is a fairly new install and
has no software installed other than that which ships with the OS,
drivers for hardware, an a/v package (AVG) and a firewall (KPF). On all
three immediately after the insallation of SP4 the exact same issues
developed; missing program shortcuts, no Administrative Tools, SFC
failures, random lockups and forced restarts resulting in drive errors.
All three are M$ certified hardware, clean installs, current drivers,
nothing flakey at all. All pass OEM and 3rd party hardware diags with
flying colors.
On nearly every Win2K workstation I can think of that has had SP4
installed at work (where I support hundreds of Windows PCs, a fair
amount running Win2K) there has been general system instability, random
lockups and forced restarts. Two that I personally use (a desktop and a
laptop, different brands and certified Microsoft Compatible for 2K and
XP) I have had to remove SP4 for the same reasons. I seriously doubt
this is coincindental.
Don't get me wrong, Torgeir, you do good, just please do it better and
please quit making excuses for Microsoft. Listen to the people - we are
trying to tell you that SP4 is a problem. Perhaps not for you, but for a
lot of the rest of us.
Steve
- Next message: Dave: "Re: evidence of trojan infection?"
- Previous message: Ken: "Win2K Backup to CD-R/RW"
- Maybe in reply to: Tritium: "Re: W2K SP4 Hosed our PC - Need Help !!!"
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- Reply: George Hester: "Re: W2K SP4 Hosed our PC - Need Help !!!"
- Reply: Torgeir Bakken (MVP): "Re: W2K SP4 Hosed our PC - Need Help !!!"
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