Re: change display name with script?

Paul,
I'm not sure if you read the first paragraph of the post you replied to or
not. The focus isn't really on whether or not Joe is "pushing" a book. I
really don't like talk about him in the third person like this and I hope he
doesn't find that irritating.
However, he did say that he intends to sell products online and refer to
those products in specific situations where it would help people solve their
problems in this forum. Given that, I do not understand the point of your
first paragraph. I think we've agreed that isn't what he finds
"annoying"... he accepts that.

You, on the other hand were "annoyed by the wording" in my post and chose to
move on, as opposed to replying in a way that diminished the help I was
trying to offer. For that I am appreciative... thats really all I could
want.

What I have a hard time swallowing is that its the MVPs that are annoyed...
not the people that are asking for and getting the help. Sure, some people
might prefer a free solution, in that case they can simply ignore my post.
Also, I certainly never reply to a post where the person asking for help
explicitely says they want a free solution, or a solution only involving
native tools, or whatever constraints that some people occassionally post.
I certainly respect those wishes. I'm not forcing advertising on anyone...
just trying to offer a solution... and as I said, I get positive feedback
from those we do end up helping. For that, I disagree with your assessment
that people coming here are "rarely looking for a product, they are looking
for a skill set". I think many times they're looking for either one, or a
combination of the two, that will best meet their needs. As I said before,
the proof is in the fact that we've made some people from these forums very
happy. Sometimes our solution is the one chosen and they were grateful for
the helping hand.
Whether you agree or not, all I ask is that when I'm trying to help someone
with a problem I don't see a followup post from someone else dimishing the
effort. It doesn't really serve the community.
Thanks for reading... I hope this exchange isn't getting too rediculous. I
really do respect each of you, your efforts, and as you said, the HUGE
brains invovled here.

--
Ken Aldrich
DSRAZOR for Windows
Visual Click Software, Inc.
www.visualclick.com

"Paul Bergson [MVP-DS]" <pbergson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OizZrn3LHHA.3668@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have never seen Joe get up and start pushing his book, not even in a soft
sell approach. Not meaning to down play any of the other folks in here
(There are some HUGE brains in here) but I would put Joe at the top of the
list in both AD compentancy and help. His mention of the book he wrote, in
his signature, (In my opinion) provides the reader with a high level of
confidence in his answer. I don't see it as pushing the book, but
providing assurance.

On the other hand, when I read your answer I too was annoyed by the
wording. It was your choice but I immediately just clicked by your answer.
Folks that come in here rarely are looking for a product they are looking
for a skill set.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

"Ken Aldrich" <supportw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uZ1LRI1LHHA.1240@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From what I gather your objection is not that I am promoting a solution
that I am associated with. You yourself are pretty much doing that now
and you admit that you will soon be offering a solution that costs money
and you intent to post here and link people to that solution.

Your objection is your posts tend to cover a wider range of topics than
what you support directly on your website and my posts that you happen to
read are more focused.

I will say that I do contribute to more than one online community and
often make posts that do not link the product I support. Many of those
are web forums. There are so many newsgroup postings here I try to stay
focused on what I know best so I can provide more help with the limited
time I have available to post helpful replies.

As for you being annoyed about seeing my name over and over "hocking" my
product. I will argue that I make about 10 posts a month. I would say
that you link to your website far more often than that (in a week? A
day?). And I would say that your signature prominently promotes your book
and if someone buys that book from your website link (as opposed to a
link to Amazon directly) you get some proceeds. Let alone the other
things you sell on your website. Whether you're being successful and
making a profit or not on those sales is not even an argument.

My other point is it's not people seeking help that are complaining it's
you and a few other MVPs that operate in the same manner as you. I've
never heard a post from someone seeking help saying "Wow, post something
other than an ad". I get quite the opposite feedback. If someone has
posted a free solution and I post a solution merely offering that someone
take a look at our website because we can fix their problem you get
upset. It is a misconception that people only want free tools. The
reality is that many people find them cryptic, tedious, hard to use,
limited, and without support. These tools can cause a lot of frustration
and that's why some people come looking for help. It can bring someone a
lot of security to know that someone who knows what they are doing is
willing to help them through an audit, a project, or a problem. When the
stress of an audit comes looming, managers really like the security
blanket offered by a third party company that can meet their needs in a
customized way. They like the ability to call a company and say I need a
report that shows this, this, this, and this and we send them an email
back with the solutions. Sometimes in 15 minutes.

I'm not following your posts and saying, "that MS tool or script you just
suggested has many limitations and is hard to use, you should use DSRAZOR
because that's the only way you're going to solve your problem." Of
course not, people should review all of their options and find the best
solution that meets their needs, free or not. The feedback I get. when I
talk to people I have met on usenet, is that they appreciate the help and
were glad we met because I've made their lives easier, made them look
good with their boss, saved them a lot of time, and helped them learn.
These all validate that I am contributing to the community.

As for getting our product in the hands of MVP's. anyone can come to the
website and download the full version of the product. It will return
very limited results but you can see what it's about. We can also grant
7 day evaluation tokens. I suspect that some MVP's have already played
with DSRAZOR. Our name is out there, we've been to tradeshows, have been
featured in magazines like Windows IT Pro, have full page ads in Technet
Magazine, and Windows IT Pro Magazine, etc. The company itself has been
supporting Directory Services since 1999 and is very well known in the
NetWare circles. If any MVP's want to come check it out please do.
Check out our website or give us a call. Ask for me and I would be happy
to walk any of you through the product and show you what we can do and
what we cannot do.

We in no way want to diminish the efforts of you guys. As an
administrator in the past I have used websites, postings, books, etc
posted by several of you and have found them very valuable. Of course I
dig O'Reilly books, AdFind, JSI FAQ, and the other resources I've used
and I support you guys and your efforts. But I don't think it's very
nice to reply to posts I've made; complaining about them and diminishing
the help I am trying to offer. I don't think it serves anyone.



Happy New Year!


--
Ken Aldrich
DSRAZOR for Windows
Visual Click Software, Inc.
www.visualclick.com

"Joe Richards [MVP]" <humorexpress@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OoNLcitLHHA.4196@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It would be good to see posts from you that didn't say, go look into
buying DRAZOR, it will do what you need. Put it in your signature if you
like. Those of us MVPs who have items in our signatures or stuff on our
websites aren't usually making profit on them with a couple of
exceptions, usually it is barely enough to cover the stuff we publish
for folks. My book was a huge loss financially for me, if anyone made
money it was O'Reilly. I worked on that book mostly because I wanted to
help folks and there were a lot of issues in the book that needed
correcting. Ditto for spending any time in the newsgroups, lots of bad
advice out here with folks thinking the only solution is something that
they have to pay for or worse being told things that are absolutely
incorrect. My joewear stuff and Amazon ads just pay for the hosting. I
make far more money consulting for companies and going in and getting
paid, everything else doesn't even ad up to poverty level income.

That being said, I will still come out here and help because, as I
mentioned, I don't do it to make money. I also don't do it for the
reputation, I don't need it, I am well known in the fortune 25 companies
and govermment/militaries for the work I have done for them. I do all of
this to help people get past issues that are causing them problems,
stave off bad info that is put out by alleged experts, and actually to
learn more about the kinds of issues people have to come up with more
solutions for them.

I have a set of solutions that I will be selling going up onto a new
website at some point in the hopefully near future and I fully intend to
recommend those as well when they make sense but they won't be the only
posts I put out in the newsgroups, they will be a slight sprinkling of
all of the posts I write.

I don't think you are a bad person, but it is extremely annoying to see
a name over and over again and the only response it ever has is hocking
of their product. Respond with some posts on how to do things without
your product, etc. Become a productive member of the community. You are
correct in that there are no rules of conduct out here. However, most of
us would like to see it as a place of answers and not a place of
advertisements. Sure advertise, I have no problem with that, but do more
than that. Better than that, if you want, contact me off line (use the
joe@xxxxxxxxxxx and put [MVP] in the subject or [DRAZOR] if you want)
and I can talk to you about getting your product into the hands of DS
MVPs who can play with it and then if they like it point it out to folks
as a possible solution along with others. I personally likely don't have
time to play with it but there are many DS MVPs that likely would. Then
you don't have to be the sole advertiser and it will give you time to
post other types of responses.

joe

--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net


---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---

http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm


Ken Aldrich wrote:
Joe and other MVPs,

The last thing I want to do is get into an argument with you over
usenet. I respect you, your advice, your books, everything. Not just
you, the other MVP's that frequent these areas as well. Without your
help this would not be the same place.

I want to point out that I am not some sales guy indiscriminately
posting around newsgroups. I am providing very specific advice to help
people resolve their problems. I also do help out, make posts, and
provide solutions that do not involve the products offered by the
company I work for. I am genuinely trying to be helpful.

Some people prefer non-scripted, non command-line, easy to use, fully
supported solutions. And they do come here looking for them. Just
because you suggest a free tool does not mean it is the best tool or
the tool the requester would like to use. Many people will agree that
free is not always the best in a given situation.

Also, I would say there is a fine line between the solutions I post
versus the solutions you post. Many MVPs have links to their websites
or blogs or links to buy books written by them in their signatures or
posts. You use this as a venue to promote yourself as knowledgable and
hope to build a reputation and sell your books, drive people to your
site to seek written faqs or software solutions. While it may be
"free", you're also showing off advertisements for anything from
frisbees to software. I'm not complaining, but I think that there is
not a huge difference. And its not the seekers of help that are
complaining, its you guys that somehow feel bothered by it.

I will tell you that many people genuinely appreciate my posts and are
thankful for the solutions. I regularly talk to people that thank me
for posting a solution. They like the ease of use and the fact that it
is supported. Of the solutions offered, free or not, sometimes we are
the one chosen and the best fit for that particular person requesting
help. That makes me feel like I have contributed to the community here.

I hope you guys can see my point. I'm not just spamming or blatently
forcing people to read "ads" as you call it. I put thought into my
posts making sure they are appropriate and useful. And I do not see a
huge difference between me linking to a commercial website and offering
to hold someone's hand through a problem versus your linking to your
own website which has offers things for sale.

I do not want to get into a nasty back and forth argument. This really
isn't the venue and I hope you see my post in a good light. As I said,
I really respect you guys, and I hope you realize the help I have been
offering has been well received by people looking for it.







.

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