Re: How do I approach this?

Yes I was being harsh. I have been in exactly your type of situation trying
to go the extra mile on my own time, and had the employer assume that
anything I did was theirs. It ruffled quite a few feathers when I suggested
that I owned it rather than them. Like you I was hired for a different
purpose, and that does not really matter to many business types. My
motivation was to get you talking to your management as soon as possible,
because until you have an understanding with them you do not know what your
next move is. I am glad to hear you are talking with them. I have been in
this business for 30 years and your view was just a bit naive. Given your
goals you should be able to work something out with your management, in
particular because you do not want them to pay anything, but I would judge
that the ownership is very much in doubt until you settle with them.

Michael


"Phil" <Phil@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ddk8ne$fdd$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Hi Michael,
>
> Perhaps I am being a little naive but on the face of it this would seem
> harsh for anyone in my position!
>
> The suggestion that created the idea was made by someone else. But it is
> not exactly a new concept to use sql for a database. The effort in making
> a simple remark 'it would have been nicer as an sql database', is nothing
> compared to the hours of design and coding, testing and debugging.
>
> Yes, I agree of course that the application is targeted at the company
> business. That is what I produced it for.
>
> Yes again. I initially based the required fields on the data that was
> currently been stored in the Excel spread***. After my demonstration he
> decided he would like a couple more fields and that these should be
> displayed in the UI.
>
> I had hard-coded the connection string and was asked to use a corporate
> dll that allowed for movement of the db onto another server etc.
>
> Finally yes, I am salaried but my contract states pretty much 9am-5pm M-F.
>
> I would make this comment though. As said originally, I was not employed
> as a s/w developer or any other developer. Nor where my skills in s/w
> taken into consideration for the position that I currently have. I believe
> that, as a corporation who 'should' have the legal and professional
> experience, they should ensure that the i's are dotted and t's crossed.
>
> All that said, if I was concerned about financial gain (which I am not and
> have never said I was), then the points you make would weaken my case I
> believe.
>
> I wanted to ensure that I am treat fairly and recognised as the primary
> (whether sole or not) developer.
>
> Thanks for your comments Mike.
>
> Cheers, Phil
>
>
> "Michael Latta" <lattam@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:O2uzFv5nFHA.2904@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> If I was your manager you would have a very hard time convincing me this
>> was not done as part of your work.
>>
>> 1) The original idea was suggested by someone at work.
>> 2) The application is targeted at your company's business.
>> 3) You have taken direction from people at work both in design and in
>> implementation.
>> 4) You have incorporated code provided by your work.
>>
>> While you are certainly free to use this to get a better position, that
>> fact that you did this at home has little bearing on the issue if you are
>> on salary. If you are hourly or on contract as a consultant working for
>> yourself or another company (even a company of one), then you have some
>> room to bargain. But, even then without a clear up-front understanding
>> the points above would make it difficult to argue for it not being work
>> for hire.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> "Phil" <Phil@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:ddj94q$34r$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Whoa, this is getting heavy guys!!!
>>>
>>> Without reading back these threads, let me clarify a couple of
>>> points......and sorry for not doing so sooner.
>>>
>>> Our small department started providing technical support over the
>>> telephone some months ago. At that time, and it is still so as I write
>>> this message, the method of logging such calls was on a simple excel
>>> spread***.
>>>
>>> We had a dept. meeting in which one of our managers made an
>>> 'off-the-cuff comment' that it could really do to be something like an
>>> sql database. I piped up that I could probably do something like
>>> that.......and nothing more was said.
>>>
>>> I went away and worked on this at home. At some time later I informed
>>> the manager that I was close to having something ready, at which point
>>> he said he didn't think that I was serious (at the meeting) when I said
>>> I could do something!!
>>>
>>> The helpdesk has since grown in calls and the company has decided that
>>> they would grow this function in resource (ie. manpower) and provide
>>> support for more services.
>>>
>>> My intention during development was that we (the dept.) would run the
>>> database under MSDE on one of the dept's PC's. I was told that it would
>>> be better on the corporate sql server and this seemed appropriate. At
>>> this point my manager asked me to liaise with the IT development
>>> manager, which I did. I provided him with a copy of the sql database
>>> that I had been using for development and he has since put it onto the
>>> sql server for me to use. He also provided a dll which retrieves the
>>> connection string from the server so that, should it be moved, then the
>>> app would not need to be modified!!
>>>
>>> This week I demo'd the app. by installing it onto my managers laptop,
>>> and was asked if I would mind making some minor changes/additions, which
>>> I have now done. I am yet to provide a final copy and so it is not yet
>>> being used.
>>>
>>> I think I have now provided all of the background.
>>>
>>> Does this new or additional information change anyone's viewpoint?
>>>
>>> Thanks to all of you.
>>>
>>> Best wishes, Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> "Phil" <Phil@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:ddiqlc$pg7$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>I value of all your views and response's, thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Just for additional info. I am in the UK. The 'app' was written on my
>>>> own laptop using my VS.Net s/w.
>>>>
>>>> My primary interest in doing this was to use it as a tool to possibly
>>>> gain employment 'in the industry'. Hence my request to have some sort
>>>> of acknowledgement in my personnel file, or perhaps even a separate
>>>> company-headed letter detailing the specifics and its benefits to the
>>>> company.
>>>>
>>>> I feel that I should be able to request/expect this WITHOUT having to
>>>> provide the source code. Please be aware that, at this stage, I have
>>>> not informed my boss of this concern and it is very possible that he
>>>> may fully understand. I was really just wondering if anyone reading
>>>> this had been in a similar position and how they tackled the whole
>>>> thing.
>>>>
>>>> Please continue with your comments and respond back. There must be (or
>>>> will be) many more people in a similar position.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>> "Steven Wilmot" <steven-news@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>> news:eoxZiR2nFHA.3828@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> "Phil" <Phil@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ddgf58$fca$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not employed as a programmer/developer and my contract mentions
>>>>>> nothing about this. I have developed the app. in my own time at home,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the exception of some limited testing within our intranet (probably
>>>>>> 98% at
>>>>>> home).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I have verbally agreed to allow use of this app. with an
>>>>>> understanding that the effort will be acknowledged in my personnel
>>>>>> file. I
>>>>>> am happy with this!! However, I am concerned as my boss made a
>>>>>> comment
>>>>>> recently regarding the source code. I do not feel that I should be
>>>>>> providing this but do not know how to broach my concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you guys think about all of this??????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>> My personal view on this (I'm not answering this from a legal or
>>>>> authoratitive point of view) is that you are talking about an
>>>>> application
>>>>> fully written by you in your own time at home.
>>>>>
>>>>> If your company feels that such an application is so valuable, then it
>>>>> should do one of the following:
>>>>> i) Discuss with you the possibility of purchasing the source code
>>>>> from you, or licensing the product's use
>>>>> ii) Realise that it is currently using the software for free, and
>>>>> that you would be within your rights to request that they stop using
>>>>> it.
>>>>> iii) COme to some other compromise agreement.
>>>>>
>>>>> S.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


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