Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home

Tim, thanks a million for all the info. Since my sister-in-law told me
she had no intention of using Vista whatsoever and she is anything but a
power user (basically just light Web browsing), I decided to just
perform a clean install of XP.

However, I am keeping all your pointers becauase in the near future, I
intend to dual boot XP and Vista, so thanks once more.

--
Dave


"Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e9N21x2$IHA.4064@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
What I would do is get rid of that recovery partition. If it were to
be used, it would wipe out any new partitions and obliterate XP.
Deleting it would also free up a Primary partition. If Disk
Management
can't delete it, try Gparted. If Gparted can't do it, change the
partition type code to hex 07 using Cute Partition Manager (a free
download .iso file to make a live CD). If you have an external
hard drive handy, you may also want to clone Vista before deleting
the recovery partition, then delete the Vista partition, then copy the
Vista clone back into the newly available unallocated space that
had been freed up. Either in the process of making a new partition
for Vista, or after Vista had been copied back, you could shrink
the Vista partition using either Disk Management or Gparted to
juggle the relative sizes of the Vista and XP partition. You may want
to discuss the uses intended for the large data partition. If your
sister doesn't have a lot of video or multi-media files to edit or
keep
on disk, you may want to copy those current files elsewhere tempor-
arily while you adjust the size of the data partition as well. Since
you
would be working with just Primary partitions, I don't think you'd
have any problems using Vista's Disk Management. Gut if you do
have Gparted handy, you'll save a *little* bit of space using the old
start-of-data offset instead of the larger 2,048-sector offset of
Vista.

What hasn't been mentioned, yet, in this thread is that Vista and XP
will step on each other's restore points. There is a registry hack to
get around that, but if your sister just backs up her files
religiously,
restore points would be superfluous, anyway. Here's more info on
that: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 .

Here's info on dual-booting Vista and XP with XP installed 2nd
and using Vista's bcdedit to adjust Vista's BCD:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 ,
http://windowssecrets.com/2008/02/14/01-Make-your-computer-dual-boot-Vista-and-XP

Here's info on doing the same thing, but using VistaBootPro to
adjust Vista's BCD:
http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm .

Here's info on doing the same thing, but using EasyBCD to adjust
Vista's BCD:
http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm

Good luck!

*TimDaniels*


"Daave" wrote:
Thanks so much for your explanation; it's starting to make sense to
me. :-)

The laptop belongs to my sister-in-law. It's an Acer 5100-3357. It
came preinstalled with Vista Home Premium, which she detests. I'd
like to create a dual-boot system for her with XP Home. This way, she
can use XP to her heart's content but still have the option to use
Vista. Using Disk Management, I see there are three primary
partitions. One is the hidden 8.79 GB hidden recovery partition. Then
there is C:, which is the boot drive with Vista (51.65 GB). Finally,
there's D:, a 51.36 GB data partition. Since there are no extended
partitions, I suppose I could use Vista's partitioning utility. Or
Gparted. So, what's your recommendation for her particular setup?


"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
The caution I gave was:
"Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista-
created Extended partition, though."

As the "multibooters" site explained, Vista can deal with partitions
created under the "old rules", but adding to or removing logical
drives (i.e. logical partitions) from an Extended partition involves
offsets within the Extended partition, and mixing the "rules" by
using different partition managers to do so may lead to the apparent
"disappearance" of a partition. If you look in the Google archives
of this very NG, there are moans by people who say that their
precious partition has simply disappeared. So the conservative
and safe thing to do would be to do *all* partition management
under the same set of rules. And since "restoring" an image of
a partition is related in some of its processes to creating a
partition, one should do that under the same set of rules that
were used to create the original partition. But since Vista can
access partitions created under the old rules, my guess is that
restoring an image or copying back a clone is safe as long as one
is not creating a new logical drive within an Extended partition.
Why partitions made by VistaBootPro may not be affected, I
don't know. Perhaps it was not tested for creation and deletion
of logical drives within an Extended partition that contained
Vista-created logical drives. To add to the confusion, there are
cloning utilities with recent versions that claim compatibility with
Vista new offset rules. BootItNG and Casper are a couple that
make that claim. They may or may not work in all scenarios.
The safest thing to do would to just use something like Gparted
to create all the partitions because all partitioning utilities can
deal with the old rules. In the case of my Dell laptop with Vista
pre-installed, Vista was on a Primary partition with the old offset,
and a proprietary app was on a logical drive in an Extended
partition
that had the new internal offset. I nuked the entire Extended
partition
and kept the Primary partition, and I've cloned and restored Vista
several times using an old-rules Casper with no problems. If you
can't tell whether your pre-installed Vista has the old offset or
the
new 2,048-sector offset, and you are willing to re-install Vista,
I'd
say to just re-install Vista in a partition created under the old
rules.

*TimDaniels*

"Daave" wroote:
Now I am thoroughly confused, Timothy!

In another post, you listed these links:

Here's an explanation of the problem:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931854
Here's the reference that explaines Vista's new partitioning
format: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html
Here's just one How-To that uses VistaBootPro:
http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm
Here's a How-To that uses Vista's own "bcdedit" command:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529

The multibooters link states:

<quote>
If you only have Vista on your computer and don't mess with
imaging or cloning then you have nothing to worry about. However
if you do image or clone your drive or have a dual/multiboot
configuration with OSes other than Vista, then there are various
serious problems that can arise. For now the best solution is to
not let Vista create partitions, but do it with previous Windows
OSes or with third-party tools.
</quote>

Okay. Since it's a very good idea to either image or clone one's
hard drive, it seems that using Vista to repartition the hard drive
is not a good idea.

Furthermore, it states:

<quote>
When installing Vista you should create the partition yourself
beforehand and point the Vista install to that partition. Vista is
perfectly happy to follow the standard conventions and I have
not seen any issues when everything has been done by the old
rules using XP compatible tools. Many current apps that worked
with XP can be used with Vista, however many might not install
inside Vista but they can be used from inside another OS or
boot disk. When there have not been any Vista created partitions
on the drives I have successfully used several non-Vista versions
of partitioning and imaging/cloning tools.
</quote>

So, it appears that a tool like Gparted might fit the bill.
However, you state that doing so may result in other problems! Or
perhaps the idea is to let Gparted partition the drive from the
get-go, and *then* install the OSes (that is, not to have it do
repartitoning after the fact that Vista had already been
installed). Am I correct?

In the John Barnett link, he advocates using VistaBootPro. But this
involves using Vista to repartition the hard drive. So, if the
multibooters link is correct, again, problems could arise when
imaging or cloning the hard drive!

So, is there anything definitive as to the best practices
procedure?


"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
Here's my reply to another posting in this NG on using
Gparted to create partitions for both Vista and other OSes::

On my Dell laptop with pre-installed Vista, I had good luck using
Gparted - a Linux partition manager which runs on a bare-bones
version of Linux (which disappears when you exit Gparted).
Gparted will shrink Vista's partition much further than will
Vista's
Disk Management, and it's just as intuitive to use. You can
download a free .zip file to make a live USB stick (as I did) or
you
can download a free .iso file to make a live CD. These free files
are
are both available from http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
.
Here's some user documentation:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/larry/livecd/livecd.htm
(For the live USB, I take all the defaults at startup, except that
I choose "1" - for the "Medium" level of expertise - and then I
tell it NOT to let the startup routine select the graphic driver
auto-
matically, but then I accept its selection and the rest of the
defaults.)

Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista-
created Extended partition, though. Vista uses a new 2,048-sector
offset from the beginning of its partitions, and the feature can
cause
problems for other partition managers in Extended partitions.

*TimDaniels*


"GrahamH" wrote:
Hi,
Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and
formatting XP didnt like it. There is i believe something
different in the structure of Vista`s partitioning and formating.
It may not be backward compatible, at least with 3rd party
partitoning software. Cant rememeber what the difference is but a
search on the web
will find it.
I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive
in which case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and
also system files.
This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each
other.

I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and
the way i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format
ntfs using paragon hard disk manager.
I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first.
Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first.
I also created on the second primary an extended partition and
logical drive and installed XP again for testing software
purposes.
So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test.
You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and
make active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot.

Good luck
Graham....



"john p murphy" <jm920@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@xxxxxxxxxx
Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista
Ultimate,
and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition
using
vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton
was
just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP
thing
copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get
this
message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall
again and
again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair
fails
miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to
the
part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions,
C,D,
and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions,
and
just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am
curious
about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had
problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not
knowing what
the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help
with
this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL













.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Booting Vista from external drive violate MS EULA?
    ... of OS install to diff drives. ... Meaning this boots off usb vista, if there is another hard drive ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.vista.general)
  • Re: With duel boot -- what is best place to put Vista
    ... partition next to the XP partition or put it on my second drive? ... Best practice install older OS first then newer. ... There are several ways to run both XP and Vista and issues you need to be ... A third way is to install on different drives and select which drive to boot ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Install Windows Se7en alongside Windows Vista?
    ... Yes you can install it alongside Vista but partitioning the drive is highly recommended if you don't want to invite problems. ... Before you start it would be wise to either make a full backup or clone of your Vista install in case things go really, really, wrong. ... Shared access files can be kept on a separate partition or harddrive, or even just folders that both operating systems can access, instead of in the default folders each OS creates for itself. ... Then with the same tool create a new partition within that vacant space, format the partition and allocate a logical drive letter that won't interfere with your other existing drives. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup)
  • Re: Transfer 32 bit to 64 bit - new drive
    ... Set your BIOS to boot from DVD; insert the Vista x64 DVD and reboot from it to run Setup. ... Let it create and format a new partition on the new HDD and install Vista x64 there. ... When you are sure that you have transferred or preserved everything you need from them, you can use Drive Management to delete and/or reformat the former Drives C: and G: on Disk 1 and create new drives there for other uses. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup)
  • Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home
    ... than Vista, then there are various serious problems that can arise. ... When installing Vista you should create the partition yourself ... however many might not install inside Vista but they can be used ... Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup)