Re: It's official: upgrade hack included in Vista SP1

1. It has never been possible to upgrade in place from 32bits to 64bits for any Windows client or server software because a 64bit OS MUST be installed by a 64bit installer. A 64bit installer cannot run on a 32bit system. Hence, upgrades in place cannot be done.

2. The so-called workaround is specific to 32bits. Vista 64bit Setup works differently but a comparable technique can be used. The result is the same. Specifically, although you must perform the workaround for 32bits from the first installation's desktop, the workaround for 64bits can be performed by booting with the 64bit dvd. The Vista installed on the first pass can be either 32bits or 64bits in such a case. The edition chosen for keyless installation on the first pass should not matter either.

3. I seriously doubt that anyone is rebelling over this. Revolting, maybe. Rebelling, no.

Please understand that the installation methodology used to install Windows has always been at the convenience of the user. Regardless of the methodology used, the user is still responsible for being in compliance with the EULA, which only requires that the user OWN a Windows license eligible for upgrade, in this case to Vista.

"JT Edwards" <JT Edwards@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:EB0AD98A-98A0-4E05-9363-ADCBF14AE971@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To all concerned:

About freaking time! Not to derail Microsoft (who I have a great deal of
respect for), but inability to upgrade Vista was simply insane. Explain to me
and the consumer base at large why:

1. New customers with 64bit processor machines (newly purchased) DO not have
an in place upgrade path from 32 bit to 64 bit.

2. Is this "workaround" applicable for 32 bit Vista to 64 bit Vista? Or will
I and the community have to reinstall our applications to include our data.

3. Now that Red Hat has made Linux so much easier for a lot of my
customers, there is a silent rebellion with regards to Microsoft due to this
oversight. Can't they (Microsoft) simply address the general public and point
out this simple factoid as a good will gesture?

I, for one, appreciate the candid conversation you guys are having. I am
hoping Microsoft gets this issue resolved so that we can remain loyal

Thanks for responding folks.


"Rick Rogers" wrote:

Hi Shane,

Carey statement is based on information relayed in a licensing and
activation presentation and discussion on the Microsoft campus that I
attended as well. It was specifically stated by the presenters that they
were looking at ways to identify these types of installations via WGA.
Whether or not they will be blocked remains to be seen, but the loophole was
not intentional even though it was known prior to Vista's release. I suspect
that closing it required changes that would have delayed release, so they
let it go as is.

Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
Windows help -
My thoughts

"Shane Nokes" <shane@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> That's completely untrue Carey.
> I really hate to say this since I usually defend MVP's but Microsoft > left
> this in so that a "clean install" could still be done for those that > owned
> a
> prior license.
> That has been stated more than once and has been confirmed.
> It's not meant to allow installations in violation of the EULA but to
> support a scenario where original media may not be available but where > a
> valid license is still in place.
> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:#HFWHKmyIHA.2340@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sorry, but this so-called "hack" is not approved by Microsoft.
>> Using this hack, Windows Genuine Advantage will check the
>> license and if it is determined it is solely an upgrade license,
>> your computer will be flagged as "non-genuine" and you'll
>> eventually have to purchase the correct "Full Version" license.
>> -- >> Carey Frisch
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Windows Desktop Experience -
>> Windows Vista Enthusiast
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> "Jon Pope" <mrjonpope@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:%23mXuwXlyIHA.5892@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> It's official: upgrade hack included in Vista SP1
>> By Scott Dunn
>> The new Service Pack 1 version of Windows Vista allows end users to
>> purchase
>> the "upgrade edition" and install it on any PC - with no need to >> purchase
>> the more expensive "full edition."
>> The same behavior was present when Vista was originally released, but >> the
>> fact that the trick wasn't removed from SP1 suggests that Microsoft
>> executives approved the back door as a way to make the price of Vista
>> more
>> appealing to sophisticated buyers.
>> Previous Windows version not needed for upgrade
>> Just after Vista was first released to consumers on Jan. 30, 2007, an
>> article in the Windows Secrets Newsletter explained that the upgrade
>> edition
>> of the operating system could be installed on a "clean" hard drive. >> For
>> whatever reason, Vista had been programmed to accept itself as a
>> "qualifying
>> product." This eliminated any need for users to purchase the full >> edition
>> of
>> Vista or to upgrade Vista only over an older instance of Windows.
>> The Feb. 1, 2007, article by Windows Secrets editorial director Brian
>> Livingston explained that the procedure is supported by several >> built-in
>> dialog boxes. This indicates that the trick had been deliberately
>> included
>> by Vista's developers.
>> To boost the sales of retail packages, Microsoft announced just over >> one
>> month ago significant price cuts in Vista, beginning with Service Pack >> 1.
>> The savings over the old prices vary among different Vista versions, >> such
>> as
>> Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate. In the U.S., the list price of >> the
>> upgrade edition is at least $100 cheaper than the full edition. >> Smaller
>> savings exist in other markets, such as Canada and the European Union, >> as
>> shown in the table below.
>> The price reductions on the Service Pack 1 version of Vista are even >> more
>> significant because the upgrade trick still works in SP1, rendering
>> unnecessary the purchase of Vista's full edition.
>> Shortly after the hidden upgrade method was published, Microsoft
>> officials
>> publicly stated that the procedure would violate Vista's end-user >> license
>> agreement. Section 13 of the Vista EULA (PDF version) says, "To use
>> upgrade
>> software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible
>> for
>> the upgrade."
>> "We believe only a very small percentage of people will take the time >> to
>> implement this workaround, and we encourage all customers to follow >> our
>> official guidelines for upgrading to Windows Vista, which can be found >> at
>>, instead," said a Microsoft press representative >> quoted
>> in
>> a article on Feb. 14, 2007. "Following these guidelines will
>> allow
>> customers to easily and validly upgrade to Windows Vista," he >> continued.
>> Since that time, of course, Microsoft has had over one year to remove >> the
>> upgrade back door before releasing the SP1 version of Vista. >> Livingston
>> believes that the company must have consciously decided not to do so.
>> "The fact that the upgrade edition will still upgrade over itself in
>> Vista
>> SP1 proves that Microsoft executives knowingly support the upgrade
>> trick,"
>> he says. "I think the feature was deliberately included to make it
>> unnecessary for more advanced and price-sensitive users to ever buy >> the
>> full
>> version. There is no ethical dilemma with people using a feature that
>> Microsoft has specifically programmed into Vista."
>> Ironically, the original release of Vista's upgrade edition was
>> disappointing to many consumers. They'd been told by Microsoft that >> the
>> Vista upgrade process would no longer accept the insertion of a disc
>> containing an older version of Windows as proof that Vista was >> upgrading
>> over a qualifying product.
>> Instead, users heard from Microsoft that the Vista upgrade procedure >> must
>> be
>> launched while a copy of Windows 2000 or XP was actually running. The
>> upgrade trick that Vista developers included, however, renders that
>> requirement moot. A Vista upgrade disc will install and activate >> properly
>> even on a blank hard drive that has never previously been used.
>> Installing software from an original distribution disc to an empty >> hard
>> drive, which is called a "clean install," is a best practice >> recommended
>> by
>> security organizations, such as NIST and US-CERT. Vista, unlike XP and
>> previous Windows versions, doesn't make a clean install easy.
>> The original Windows Secrets article contains step-by-step >> instructions
>> on
>> upgrading Vista in this way. In a nutshell, the procedure involves
>> booting a
>> PC from the Vista upgrade DVD. Next, a clean install is performed >> without
>> the user entering the disc's product key or downloading any patches.
>> Once this unactivated, trial version of Vista is running, the setup
>> program
>> is launched again - this time from within Vista. At this point, the
>> "upgrade" option is selected, the product key is entered, and Vista >> can
>> be
>> activated exactly like the full edition of the product.
>> Upgrading Vista on a clean machine works in SP1
>> Once Microsoft released the SP1 version of Vista, I tested the upgrade
>> trick
>> again to see whether the company had removed the feature. I used an
>> upgrade
>> disc of Vista Ultimate SP1 that I'd ordered at retail from
>> I repeated the original steps and found they work just as well on the >> SP1
>> version of Vista as they did on the old version.
>> For PC users who are thinking about installing Windows Vista, the >> upgrade
>> technique has even more value than it did last year. There are two
>> reasons:
>> 1. Quality. Vista SP1 is arguably a better product than the old, gold
>> version of the operating system. SP1 includes 551 bug fixes, according >> to
>> a
>> white paper available from a download page. The company
>> claims
>> in a press release that SP1 addresses security, reliability, and
>> performance
>> concerns with the older version of Vista.
>> 2. Price. Whether or not you believe Vista was overpriced before, it's
>> clearly a less-expensive product now than it was a year ago. As >> reported
>> by
>> Computerworld, the price cuts range from zero to 47%, depending on the
>> country and the version of Vista.
>> Table 1, below, shows that the upgrade edition of Vista is always >> cheaper
>> than the full edition of the same version (Home Premium, Business, and
>> Ultimate.) The figures are based on documents provided to Windows >> Secrets
>> by
>> Microsoft's public relations firm, Waggener Edstrom.
>> The following table shows Microsoft's new suggested list prices and >> the
>> percentage reduction from Vista's original prices. Street prices for
>> Vista
>> SP1 currently average about 10% less than suggested retail.
>> Table 1. New Vista SP1 list prices and percentage reductions from the
>> originals.
>> United States (in U.S. dollars)
>> Full edition
>> Upgrade edition
>> Vista Home Premium
>> $ 239 ( 0%)
>> $ 130 (-19%)
>> Vista Business
>> $ 299 ( 0%)
>> $ 199 ( 0%)
>> Vista Ultimate
>> $ 320 (-20%)
>> $ 220 (-15%)
>> Canada (in Canadian dollars)
>> Full edition
>> Upgrade edition
>> Vista Home Premium
>> C$ 206 (-26%)
>> C$ 113 (-26%)
>> Vista Business
>> C$ 253 (-27%)
>> C$ 233 ( 0%)
>> Vista Ultimate
>> C$ 263 (-27%)
>> C$ 243 ( -1%)
>> United Kingdom (in pounds)
>> Full edition
>> Upgrade edition
>> Vista Home Premium
>> £ 103 (-27%)
>> £ 50 (-47%)
>> Vista Business
>> £ 127 (-27%)
>> £ 117 ( 0%)
>> Vista Ultimate
>> £ 132 (-44%)
>> £ 122 (-21%)
>> Euro Zone (in euros)
>> Full edition
>> Upgrade edition
>> Vista Home Premium
>> ? 147 (-34%)
>> ? 81 (-46%)
>> Vista Business
>> ? 201 (-28%)
>> ? 187 ( 0%)
>> Vista Ultimate
>> ? 208 (-44%)
>> ? 194 (-21%)
>> Vista upgrading over itself is no accident
>> After all the publicity, the fact that the upgrade back door is still
>> present in Vista SP1 is a strong indication that the feature has at >> least
>> the tacit support of Microsoft officials. Indeed, the upgrade label on
>> Vista
>> retail packages, then and now, states that a "clean install may be
>> required."
>> There's no question that users who own a license for Windows 2000 or >> XP
>> can
>> legitimately save time and money by buying the upgrade edition of >> Vista
>> and
>> not having to first install the older operating system on a PC.
>> Although a clean install of Vista's upgrade edition - without any >> prior
>> purchase of 2000 or XP - may violate the Vista license, the result is
>> clearly an installed copy of Vista that is indistinguishable from a >> full
>> edition.


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