Re: It's official: upgrade hack included in Vista SP1

Colin,

Ok I am confused. I have a Sony VAIO with 32bit Vista Business. So from my
current understanding is that I basically have to strip the laptop and
install Vista 64bit (of course I will have to purchase 64bit Vista now).
However, based on this current thread, it appeared that 32 to 64 in place
upgrade was made. And now you are saying this was never the case.

My question is WHY is Microsoft OEMing 32bit Vista when what we probably
need 64 bit Vista.

As I indicated (believe me I have a lot of customers at the SMB layer), a
lot of my customers are looking hard at RHEL because of this oversight.

Hmmmm guess I will just run RHEL and run Vista on VMware or Xen.

I am really advising customers wanting to purchase desktops to be careful to
express 64 bit Vista versus 32 bit.

Really disappointing and quite frankly I believe a complete bait and switch
for existing Vista customers.

JT

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

1. It has never been possible to upgrade in place from 32bits to 64bits for
any Windows client or server software because a 64bit OS MUST be installed
by a 64bit installer. A 64bit installer cannot run on a 32bit system.
Hence, upgrades in place cannot be done.

2. The so-called workaround is specific to 32bits. Vista 64bit Setup works
differently but a comparable technique can be used. The result is the same.
Specifically, although you must perform the workaround for 32bits from the
first installation's desktop, the workaround for 64bits can be performed by
booting with the 64bit dvd. The Vista installed on the first pass can be
either 32bits or 64bits in such a case. The edition chosen for keyless
installation on the first pass should not matter either.

3. I seriously doubt that anyone is rebelling over this. Revolting, maybe.
Rebelling, no.

Please understand that the installation methodology used to install Windows
has always been at the convenience of the user. Regardless of the
methodology used, the user is still responsible for being in compliance with
the EULA, which only requires that the user OWN a Windows license eligible
for upgrade, in this case to Vista.

"JT Edwards" <JT Edwards@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:EB0AD98A-98A0-4E05-9363-ADCBF14AE971@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To all concerned:

About freaking time! Not to derail Microsoft (who I have a great deal of
respect for), but inability to upgrade Vista was simply insane. Explain to
me
and the consumer base at large why:

1. New customers with 64bit processor machines (newly purchased) DO not
have
an in place upgrade path from 32 bit to 64 bit.

2. Is this "workaround" applicable for 32 bit Vista to 64 bit Vista? Or
will
I and the community have to reinstall our applications to include our
data.

3. Now that Red Hat has made Linux so much easier for a lot of my
customers, there is a silent rebellion with regards to Microsoft due to
this
oversight. Can't they (Microsoft) simply address the general public and
point
out this simple factoid as a good will gesture?

I, for one, appreciate the candid conversation you guys are having. I am
hoping Microsoft gets this issue resolved so that we can remain loyal
customers.

Thanks for responding folks.

JT



"Rick Rogers" wrote:

Hi Shane,

Carey statement is based on information relayed in a licensing and
activation presentation and discussion on the Microsoft campus that I
attended as well. It was specifically stated by the presenters that they
were looking at ways to identify these types of installations via WGA.
Whether or not they will be blocked remains to be seen, but the loophole
was
not intentional even though it was known prior to Vista's release. I
suspect
that closing it required changes that would have delayed release, so they
let it go as is.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Shane Nokes" <shane@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:5C8E5535-4D8D-480E-828E-6385107487F0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

That's completely untrue Carey.

I really hate to say this since I usually defend MVP's but Microsoft
left
this in so that a "clean install" could still be done for those that
owned
a
prior license.

That has been stated more than once and has been confirmed.

It's not meant to allow installations in violation of the EULA but to
support a scenario where original media may not be available but where
a
valid license is still in place.

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:#HFWHKmyIHA.2340@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sorry, but this so-called "hack" is not approved by Microsoft.
Using this hack, Windows Genuine Advantage will check the
license and if it is determined it is solely an upgrade license,
your computer will be flagged as "non-genuine" and you'll
eventually have to purchase the correct "Full Version" license.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience -
Windows Vista Enthusiast

---------------------------------------------------------------

"Jon Pope" <mrjonpope@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23mXuwXlyIHA.5892@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's official: upgrade hack included in Vista SP1
By Scott Dunn

The new Service Pack 1 version of Windows Vista allows end users to
purchase
the "upgrade edition" and install it on any PC - with no need to
purchase
the more expensive "full edition."

The same behavior was present when Vista was originally released, but
the
fact that the trick wasn't removed from SP1 suggests that Microsoft
executives approved the back door as a way to make the price of Vista
more
appealing to sophisticated buyers.


Previous Windows version not needed for upgrade

Just after Vista was first released to consumers on Jan. 30, 2007, an
article in the Windows Secrets Newsletter explained that the upgrade
edition
of the operating system could be installed on a "clean" hard drive.
For
whatever reason, Vista had been programmed to accept itself as a
"qualifying
product." This eliminated any need for users to purchase the full
edition
of
Vista or to upgrade Vista only over an older instance of Windows.

The Feb. 1, 2007, article by Windows Secrets editorial director Brian
Livingston explained that the procedure is supported by several
built-in
dialog boxes. This indicates that the trick had been deliberately
included
by Vista's developers.

To boost the sales of retail packages, Microsoft announced just over
one
month ago significant price cuts in Vista, beginning with Service Pack
1.
The savings over the old prices vary among different Vista versions,
such
as
Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate. In the U.S., the list price of
the
upgrade edition is at least $100 cheaper than the full edition.
Smaller
savings exist in other markets, such as Canada and the European Union,
as
shown in the table below.

The price reductions on the Service Pack 1 version of Vista are even
more
significant because the upgrade trick still works in SP1, rendering
unnecessary the purchase of Vista's full edition.

Shortly after the hidden upgrade method was published, Microsoft
officials
publicly stated that the procedure would violate Vista's end-user
license
agreement. Section 13 of the Vista EULA (PDF version) says, "To use
upgrade
software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible
for
the upgrade."

"We believe only a very small percentage of people will take the time
to
implement this workaround, and we encourage all customers to follow
our
official guidelines for upgrading to Windows Vista, which can be found
at
WindowsVista.com, instead," said a Microsoft press representative
quoted
in
a News.com article on Feb. 14, 2007. "Following these guidelines will
allow
customers to easily and validly upgrade to Windows Vista," he
continued.

Since that time, of course, Microsoft has had over one year to remove
the
upgrade back door before releasing the SP1 version of Vista.
Livingston
believes that the company must have consciously decided not to do so.

"The fact that the upgrade edition will still upgrade over itself in
Vista
SP1 proves that Microsoft executives knowingly support the upgrade
trick,"
he says. "I think the feature was deliberately included to make it
unnecessary for more advanced and price-sensitive users to ever buy
the
full
version. There is no ethical dilemma with people using a feature that
Microsoft has specifically programmed into Vista."

Ironically, the original release of Vista's upgrade edition was
disappointing to many consumers. They'd been told by Microsoft that
the
Vista upgrade process would no longer accept the insertion of a disc
containing an older version of Windows as proof that Vista was
upgrading
over a qualifying product.

Instead, users heard from Microsoft that the Vista upgrade procedure
must
be
launched while a copy of Windows 2000 or XP was actually running. The
upgrade trick that Vista developers included, however, renders that
requirement moot. A Vista upgrade disc will install and activate
properly
even on a blank hard drive that has never previously been used.

Installing software from an original distribution disc to an empty
hard
drive, which is called a "clean install," is a best practice
recommended
by
security organizations, such as NIST and US-CERT. Vista, unlike XP and
previous Windows versions, doesn't make a clean install easy.

The original Windows Secrets article contains step-by-step
instructions
on
upgrading Vista in this way. In a nutshell, the procedure involves
booting a
PC from the Vista upgrade DVD. Next, a clean install is performed
without
the user entering the disc's product key or downloading any patches.

Once this unactivated, trial version of Vista is running, the setup
program
is launched again - this time from within Vista. At this point, the
"upgrade" option is selected, the product key is entered, and Vista
can
be
activated exactly like the full edition of the product.

Upgrading Vista on a clean machine works in SP1

Once Microsoft released the SP1 version of Vista, I tested the upgrade
trick
again to see whether the company had removed the feature. I used an
upgrade
disc of Vista Ultimate SP1 that I'd ordered at retail from Amazon.com.

I repeated the original steps and found they work just as well on the
SP1
version of Vista as they did on the old version.

For PC users who are thinking about installing Windows Vista, the
upgrade
technique has even more value than it did last year. There are two
reasons:

1. Quality. Vista SP1 is arguably a better product than the old, gold
version of the operating system. SP1 includes 551 bug fixes, according
to
a
white paper available from a Microsoft.com download page. The company
claims
in a press release that SP1 addresses security, reliability, and
performance
concerns with the older version of Vista.

2. Price. Whether or not you believe Vista was overpriced before, it's
clearly a less-expensive product now than it was a year ago. As
reported
by
Computerworld, the price cuts range from zero to 47%, depending on the
country and the version of Vista.

Table 1, below, shows that the upgrade edition of Vista is always
cheaper
than the full edition of the same version (Home Premium, Business, and
Ultimate.) The figures are based on documents provided to Windows
Secrets
by
Microsoft's public relations firm, Waggener Edstrom.

.

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