Re: Visual C++ wont autcomplete?

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"David Ching" <dc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:vTZvi.426$%Y7.210@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This newsgroup seems very active to me. And it is a place where very
interesting discussions are developed and elaborated, thanks to insights
by bright people like you, Daniel, Doug, Joe, Tom, and others.
And if "the folks that matter" would like to really improve their
products, they should really read this newsgroup, and the complains of
people like Joe (and others) who I understand has *decades* of experience
in computer science!


Well, this is a little naive. Who are we to tell Microsoft what
newsgroups to monitor?

I'm the last person who can tell that. But if I were a manager I would be
interested in what the clients think and say, and so I would try to monitor
active groups, where lots of experts (like Joe, etc.) post, like this group.
I think it is the source of a good feed-back for the Microsoft developers.

The web forums are IMHO worse than those NNTP newsgroup, because there are
tools to read the newsgroups (like Gravity or Agent etc. too) that offers
features and usability that the online web-based forums don't offer. At
least, I find the client-side newsgroup reading experience better than the
web-based forums reading. At least, they could build the web interface as a
new web-based client (a kind of web-based Outlook or web-based Gravity) to
fetch and post the *same* NNTP articles that are posted on these newsgroups.
So, the people who like the web-based interface could use that, and the
people who prefer Outlook or Gravity or Agent etc. could use these, and the
articles and posts are shared through all them, via NNTP protocol.


We need to go to them! And Joe has. At the last MVP Summit, he delivered
his paper to one of the VC++ Product Managers, personally. MS has gotten
the message.

I'm glad that Joe did so. I say "thank you" to him!
And I'm glad also that the PMs have gotten the message.


So the VC++ team (including some high ranking executives) are already
demoralized. And hearing us whine on and on and on about the same things,
when they've bent over backwards to try to make this VS-thing as usable to
C++ as possible does not put us in a good light with them, especially when
we don't even acknowledge the improvements in the IDE (of which there are
some).

One thing outsiders don't understand is that Microsoft is made of people
too, who want acknowledgement and pats on the back for their efforts, even
when the results of those efforts aren't very good. They're trying. It's
not their fault that .NET is the promised land now.

I put my hat off to the C++ compiler developers in Microsoft. I believe that
*completely* mastering C++ is a very hard thing; it is a complex language
with lots of rules, exceptions to rules, special cases, etc. And the world
of templates and template metaprogramming is also very complex and advanced
IMHO. I have high respect for people who can completely master C++ and
things like template metaprogramming (and there are some here, like Doug or
David W., etc. who can cut a C++ hair into four pieces with a sword, i.e.
can master also the very fine points of the language.)
So, the ones that can *develop* a C++ compiler must be outstanding
developers.

The problem is the IDE. ClassWizard was already there in VC6, why not moving
it to next versions of the IDE? No, kill it. I don't understand.
And there are other bugs in the IDE that do not require lots of resources to
be fixed (like the strange #include "./...", etc.)

I would be happy if they would have taken the old snappy and robust VC6 IDE,
just fix and improve something, and call the current version of command line
C++ compiler, and use the current improved MFC version, etc.
(If resources are the problem, I think that it would have required less
resources to do that, than writing a new IDE from scratch, as it seems to me
they did since VS2002.)

However, everyone can make mistakes (maybe they loosed some focus on MFC, I
don't know.)
But I believe that Microsoft Software Engineers can develop a very good IDE
for C++ in the future, if they really want.


Even if someone wrote the equivalent of the VC6 ClassWizard as a plug-in
for VS2005, it wouldn't make much money. I wouldn't pay more than $20 USD
for such a thing, and I can't see more than 5% of the VC2005 devs buying
it.

I agree with you. (To me, it makes sense that Microsoft would develop this
plug-in.)

<OT>
(but then I live in Silicon Valley where cost of living is very high).

Yes, I recall an Italian TV program some years ago I watched about Silicon
Valley, and I remember the problem of high cost of living that was pointed.
However, I read that developers in California earn six digits in dollars
(100,000+ $), I don't know the cost of living there, but it seems a very
good stipend...
Moreover, IIRC, Linus Torvalds lived in Silicon Valley when he moved from
Finland (Europe) to USA; but after some years he moved to Oregon (it should
be a state nearby California, if I am correct...) also because the cost of
living (and maybe also the quality of life?) is more convenient in the
Oregon (BTW: I recently watched a TV program where they showed some
*amazing* natural landscapes of Oregon!)
</OT>

Giovanni


.

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