Re: Who gets higher salary a Java Programmer or a C++ Programmer?
- From: Tommy <bad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:01:52 -0500
Tom Anderson wrote:
It'll be interesting to see how this strategy pans out in the long run. At the moment, it works because the competition, domestic and outsourced, are not so hot. As the Indian software industry matures, we'll see companies every bit as good as us emerge - and in huge numbers, of course. Will be all be out of a job then? Or will salaries in India have inflated to the point where they've lost their cost edge by then? Oh well, chances are the whole of Europe'll be bankrupt by then anyway.
Something more natural is happening - the Indians are asking question! <g> like
Why I am being being paid much lower than an American counterpart?
With Internet globalization, where network and group communications is common place, they are seeing that they are worth more. I recall a codeproject.com survey (regard pay levels) where the results were discussed and the irony of seeing an Indian expressed that he was being short changed and wondered if he should relocate to America.
I actually have some history in what was originally called
OffShore Software Engineering (OSSE)
I'll try to summarize the evolution.
In the early 80s, I worked for a Fortune 10 corporation and one of the (last) positions I had was part of New Business Development Venture Group. The group was charted to look for new industries we can get into due to the dieing manufacturing market it had for over 100+ years. The group was around 20 people with different people from around the world where they had divisions.
One of the new ideas was OSSE and it was proposed to the World Bank and Microsoft.
OSSE was born from the fact that the group including a few people from the foreign divisions such as India, Brazil, Columbia and the Philippines - countries where the corporation had large infrastructure products such as Power Plants and Nuclear Reactors. These people were not just anyone - they had influence with the respective country governments (and yes, in some cases Dictators) and they had the ability the mode the future of their country business dealings.
The OSSE idea was such:
- Target 3rd world country,
- With a population that had a high intellect,
- Engineers and Programmers with college degrees,
- With a pay cost FAR lower than American Counterparts.
In other words, the proposal was:
- American Businesses would the Software Engineers,
who put together the functional and technical
specifications for a computer product,
- Send the specifications to a 3rd world country,
with a business in charge of doing the production.
- Have the foreign programmers write the code.
At that time (and still today), if you approach the World Bank (WB) with a business plan that will help 3rd world countries create jobs and raise the standard of living, WB had funds specifically for this and would provide you with grants and loans to make it happen.
Since Microsoft at the time, was the dominant tools maker, we wanted to see their interest in this, with the long term plan of having control. We could of gone to IBM, but the idea of control is a long shot with IBM. Plus you didn't want IBM to get into this business.
Two things happen:
First, the corporation was using own businesses as examples for OSSE projects. The problem? Most of the business was Military, Defense, Nuclear so the US government immediately jumped in and raised concerns regarding the idea of sending sensitive technology specifications to foreign countries.
Second, Bill Gates, in classic fashion, had his own ideas for OSSE. So we didn't fear Gates for the reasons we feared IBM.
So what do you think happen?
If you can't send your specifications to another country
then you bring the foreign programmers to AMERICA!
And this was the birth of the H1 Visa and Green Cards to bring in foreign software developers on temporary visas!
That is what Bill Gates and others began to do. He wanted control and no way was he going to send "source" code to foreign countries.
I left the group around this time, but the business were started in America by the Indian person in the group. It was like consultant and recruitment business - but using FOREIGN resources relocated to the states. They brought in very bright Indian engineers and programmers from their country to work on American software production projects, at a much lower overhead compared to the American counterpart.
Of course, as the Internet became more prevalent, especially at higher speeds, now it was possible to recruit people and keep them in their own countries maybe under the disguise of an American business. You can save money by not having to relocate them here.
So its funny to see how the "natives" are learning that they they can do much better once they find out they their corporations is selling them at HUGE profit margins and they are not getting a piece of the pie. :-)
Of course, standard of living as increase, so there needs are increasing as well.
Personally, I think, what is the saddest part of all this is that employees continue to lose much of their benefits and the the age of and employee becoming salary competitive has lower into the teens. Meaning, the rule of thumb is that an employee becomes competitive around the age of 30 where his salary vs job output becomes competitive with a lower salary, younger person. Managers have to make decisions.
Today, that younger person skills are significant even coming out of high school. With the tools today and the early training of these kids with all their toys are home, open source, etc, the aging employee today is facing tougher times..
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