Re: NT Permissions
- From: "mayayana" <mayayaXXna@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:59:58 -0500
Sorry for the rant. It just really gets my goat when programmers thinkthey
have a right to change permissions (ANY permission) to accomodate theirown
app. That's not the way it should be, and look where we're at now with UAC
and other "features" in Vista and Server 2008 just to deal with what
programmers should have never been doing in the first place. Maybe my
opinion on this is in the minority. I hope it's not.
Maybe you're not in the minority. That might
help explain the lack of interest in this topic.
I was hoping to get into this without the "baggage"
of opinions about where and when to change permissions.
And also without the "abstinence theory" of programming:
"You could get yourself into trouble with this so it's better
that you not try to understand it at all."
But since you frame it that way...
I want people
to be able to do what they want to do. That means not
only being free of impositions from me, but also being
free of impositions from Microsoft and also from the
"enterprise chauvinism" that so commonly crops up here.
By that I mean the attitudes common among programmers
who have worked only or mainly in corporate environments
where there are admins setting up PCs and there are workers
who run with limited permissions and have no business doing
anything but their work on the PC that they use.
A good example of the possible difference in views here
is the change to using App Data for program files. That's
a good design for corporate installs. On the other hand,
many people who own their own PC *do not like* having
config. files left behind when a program is uninstalled. Most
people don't even know about App Data. They've got a growing
pile of files for each program, outside of the respective program
folders, and they never gave permission to store those files.
They were never given a choice.
So if it gets your goat when "programmers think they
have the right", do you also look out for people using your
software on that score? Do you give them the option to
keep all files in App.Path if they so choose -- the place where
they undoubtedly expect the program files to be? Or do you
think you have the right to protect people from themselves
and hide the files so they won't get themselves into trouble?
In other words, it's not about my right to change
permissions. It's about the PC owner's right to control
their PC. If someone on Vista wants to run with limited
rights then I want them to be able to do that without it
changing the behavior of my software. So how do I do
that if I need to have global settings? Creating files in
all users documents is ridiculous. As I understand it,
Inno Setup does it by creating a subfolder under all users
app data and setting permissions on that folder. Why is
it different for me to do that? Or do you also think that
Inno Setup is a threat to civilization? I'm just trying to find a
way to install the software in the way that people want
to use it.
Frankly I think your approach, while well-intentioned,
is dovetailing with Microsoft's (and many other company's)
efforts to turn PCs into money-making service appliances.
For that they need to take control away from PC owners.
They need to convince people that installing commercial or
OpenSource software is just too dangerous, complicated and
expensive. They need to convince people that it actually makes
sense to pay $50/year for Word rather than install the free
OpenOffice, or keep using an old copy of Word.
To that end, Microsoft are setting themselves up as the
default admin on privately owned PCs. As though the "users"
have to be protected from themselves. To my mind that's a
big part of why Windows keeps geting worse with each version.
The problem is not that security is tighter. The problem is
that people can't control the security. The settings are not clear
and available. The PC owner is regarded as a problem, from whom
the OS settings in general have to be hidden. So people end up
being faced with an endless stream of inane warnings, and they're
not trusted to decide for themselves whether they want those
warnings!
Companies like Microsoft are exploiting geek arrogance to
achieve their ends, so that now we're in the absurd position
of recommending to people that they go online with script,
Java, ActiveX, etc. enabled -- so that all those cloud services
will work well -- but lock everything down in the "local zone".
That scenario is so upside down that many people now actually
think it makes sense to rent software online, and to rent storage
online to keep their files safe, rather than storing those files
on their own PC!
.
- References:
- NT Permissions
- From: mayayana
- Re: NT Permissions
- From: MikeD
- NT Permissions
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