Re: Instr()

Michael C wrote:
"dpb" <none@xxxxxxx> wrote in message news:f9bgqb$lod$1@xxxxxxxxxxx
_Because_ they _are_ builtin -- that's what "intrinsic" means (and in this case "standardese" matches common usage)...

I know that but what significance does that have?

Do you have *any* information that shows that API includes intrinsic functions (for those languages with the concept)?

No, I cannot find anything that suggest inbuilt functions should be excluded. I can however find stuff that says it is the interface that applications use for programming, ie the functions they call to get stuff done.

The former simply restates the claim you have made; it doesn't support that intrinsics are routinely included as an API (again for languages that support the concept). The latter is a definition of an API obtained by string the words of A, P, and I in a different sequence. A truism, but hardly more enlightening.

Since VB is a proprietary language without a formal Standard it's difficult to find definitive definitions. So, let's go to one that has such. The following is for F77 as it was handy. F90/95 and F2003 have very similar sections differing only in inclusions for newer language elements and editing.

IF there were a Standard for VB it would contain definitions quite similar although not identical because of syntax and implementation differences. But the concept would be essentially the same.

BEGINQUOTE//

2.4 Program Units and Procedures
A program unit consists of a sequence of statements and optional comment lines. A program unit is either a main program or a subprogram.
....
A subprogram is a program unit that has a FUNCTION, SUBROUTINE, or BLOCK DATA statement as its first statement. A subprogram whose first statement is a FUNCTION statement is called a function subprogram. ...

2.4.1 Procedures.
Subroutines (15.6), external functions (15.5), statement functions (15.4), and the intrinsic functions (15.3) are called procedures. Subroutines and external functions are called external procedures. Function subprograms and subroutine subprograms may specify one or more external functions and subroutines, respectively (15.7). External procedures may also be specified by means other than FORTRAN subprograms.

2.4.2 Executable Program.
An executable program is a collection of program units that consists of exactly one main program and any number, including none, of subprograms and external procedures.
....

15.3 Intrinsic Functions
Intrinsic functions are supplied by the processor and have a special meaning. The specific names that identify the intrinsic functions, their generic names, function definitions, type of arguments, and type of results appear in Table 5.
....

ENDQUOTE//

To avoid confusion, note that in the (15.3) the following definition of "processor" --

1.2 Processor
The combination of a data processing system and the mechanism by which programs are transformed for use on that data processing system is called a processor in this standard.

That is an example of the "Standard-speak" which I mentioned earlier -- the word processor in an English-language dictionary has several meanings, none of which precisely map onto the meaning ascribed in the Standard. Within the Standard, however, "processor" means only and precisely what the above definition says it means.

In general, the concept of "intrinsic" is considered as outlined herein and to intentionally mix it with a related but different concept of general programming interfaces simply confuses what one is talking about specifically.

Whether one _can_ go beyond the boundaries of a language-supplied set facilities and use cross-application and/or mixed-languages to access an intrinsic function from outside the actual supplying language doesn't change the definition of what is an intrinsic procedure to the language itself.

QED, signing off even with the knowledge you'll undoubtedly simply ignore the obvious yet again...

-dpb

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