Re: A VB6 fan asks... why do YOU stick with VB6???

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On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:29:46 +0200, "Schmidt" <sss@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

¤
¤ "Paul Clement" <UseAdddressAtEndofMessage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im
¤ Newsbeitrag news:49tn925ue4pi92objl8hmpkbdj4ihlesen@xxxxxxxxxx
¤ > On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:59:20 +0200, "Schmidt" <sss@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
¤
¤ > Actually many apps do not require a network connection.
¤ > That was my point.
¤ And actually every current PCs has a Network-Card and
¤ a working LAN is used in every small Office nowadays.
¤ That was my point.
¤

But doesn't change anything. It's running an app on the desktop vs. over the network. Which is more
reliable?

¤ > Once you commit to running major business apps over
¤ > the network, you become dependent upon it being there
¤ > in order to get work done.
¤ Where is the problem?
¤ Someone here in this group, who has problems with the
¤ stability of its wirebased LAN?
¤

The problem is one of reliability and security, especially to a remote resource that you may have no
control over. I think I've already mentioned that.

¤ > That assumes that your data is being stored securely.
¤ > Do you actually think it's safer to store it in a remote location
¤ > that you may not have control over than it would to have it
¤ > stored locally?
¤ Of course.
¤ FileSystems can be set up, to work with strong-encryption.
¤ The big Hosters can ensure a security-level (emergency-power-
¤ generators, housebreaking-protection, fire-prevention), not
¤ affordable for smaller firms - so why not?
¤ And again - local business apps can of course be served by an
¤ internal host, using the faster LAN-connections.
¤

Yes, but once again serviced based applications from another source are out of your control.

Good example. Recently the web based Yahoo email client wasn't available for several hours. That
means I had no access to email during that time.

¤ > ¤ I was talking about
¤ > ¤ new trends, new technologies, mentioning the current Google-
¤ > ¤ WebApps as nice *Examples* for what we should expect in
¤ > ¤ this very promising area over the next years - I was not talking
¤ > ¤ about adoption of this techniques by ASPs (Application-
¤ > ¤ Service-Providers) - that's another (also interesting) story.
¤ > OK, so they're good ideas but not suitable for adoption?
¤ Sorry, that was not what I said, read again.
¤
¤ > I've never had my Microsoft tools disappear. I've never had any problem
¤ > with my data disappearing because someone else pulled the plug.
¤ LOL, no comment.
¤

So you don't have an example? ;-)

¤ > ¤ > The adoption of Linux on the desktop hasn't made any
¤ > ¤ > headway in the last several years.
¤ > ¤ At least here in europe there are other trends. Nearly every
¤ > ¤ regional government has a conversion-plan (or at least discusses
¤ > ¤ this topic), to convert to Linux, OpenSource and OpenDocument-
¤ > ¤ Standards over the next years.
¤ > Could be, but government agencies in Europe only make up a very
¤ > small fraction of business consumers around the world. After its initial
¤ > thrust several years ago, neither Linux (or Mac) has made much
¤ > of any inroads since then.
¤ That does not mean anything regarding the future.
¤ "No one will ever need more than 640kByte Ram..."
¤

I'm just telling you what has happened and that Linux and open source hasn't taken over as many have
predicted. I'm not making any predictions myself. Remember people were predicting that Netscape was
going to compete with Microsoft at the OS level because everything was going to become browser
based. That prediction didn't last long because Netscape had the rug yanked out from underneath
them.

¤ > It's very difficult to switch to an OS where in most instances the
¤ > replacement tools for that platform will provide considerably less
¤ > functionality ...
¤ Simply not true - you seriously should test the current incarnations
¤ of the OpenSource-Pendants.
¤

Doesn't replace our current implementations sorry. Not even close. I can create a laundry list of
how much we would have to change our business in order to accommodate such a change, not to mention
retrain our staff.

¤ > For example, OpenOffice ...
¤ OpenOffice is fully programmable/customizable using Java/C++/
¤ Python, etc. (external automation) and OO-Basic (internal automation).
¤ http://api.openoffice.org/
¤ Besides the Corba-Support there are also UNO-bridges into the
¤ COM/OLE-World.
¤ http://udk.openoffice.org/common/man/tutorial/office_automation.html
¤

We do some C# and JavaScript but would have to retrain our staff for any of the above. As I
mentioned in another post, comparable applications with respect to Office are missing since they do
not support the development and end user features we need.

¤ > ¤ > Second, too many user interfaces as Vincent mentioned.
¤ > ¤ As I said, there are only two large GUI-Toolkits running on
¤ > ¤ top of X11. And their differences are by far much smaller than
¤ > ¤ the GUI-Differences between OfficeXP and the upcoming
¤ > ¤ MS-Office.
¤ > Apparently two GUI Toolkits but many different OS user
¤ > interfaces.
¤ No, in the meantime nearly all Linux-Destops or -Apps are based
¤ on either Gtk or Qt, wich provide their Standard-Sets of the
¤ usual Controls and Dialogs. Both have X-Themeing-Support and
¤ look nearly the same - a Gtk-App, running under KDE (Qt) uses
¤ the current KDE-Theme and vice versa.
¤

So you're telling me that the two GUI toolkits generate the same UI and OS functionality for all
versions of Linux? If this is the case then why are there so many distros and why don't they seem to
stick around for very long?

¤ > Why don't the Linux folks get together and establish a standard
¤ > base UI?
¤ http://www.freestandards.org/en/LSB_Roadmap
¤ And practically even the "concurrent" Desktop-Environments
¤ cooperate at the lower Levels of Desktop-Integration:
¤ http://www.redhat.com/magazine/003jan05/features/dbus/
¤
¤ > ...everyone is competing amongst themselves and not against
¤ > Windows.
¤ In germany there's the dictum: "Überholen ohne Einzuholen".
¤ In english probably something like "overtaking without catching up".
¤ I find the concurrence between OpenSource-Projects (playing at
¤ the same fields) one of the most important things.
¤ OpenSource is working something like (genetic) evolution - flexible
¤ and fast reactions to different problems, probing of new ideas,
¤ sometimes splitting of projects into two developement-paths -
¤ with surviving of the fittest (XFree-XOrg) or with (a current)
¤ coexistence (KDE-Gnome).
¤ It is not the question, if KDE is obsolete or Gnome is obsolete.
¤ The only question is: are they competitive "in the wild" - and both are.
¤

Yes, with each other.

¤ > Instead of hurting the Windows desktop/server market Linux is
¤ > killing the Unix server market.
¤ Linux *is* Unix.
¤ And Linux/OpenSoure definitely is hurting Windows/Microsoft.
¤ http://www.kefk.net/Linux/Theorie/Halloween/Opensource.org/01/index.asp
¤

I don't know how you can make that conclusion. While Microsoft is wary of Linux and open source the
company is essentially paranoid about competition. Always has been.

Linux *is* Unix? Tell that to Sun. Both Windows and Linux have been eating away at the Unix server
market. As a matter of fact Windows surpassed it last year.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
.

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