Re: Anyone still speak english ??? re: Deployment of MSDE

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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 00:24:51 -0500

I have a lot of mixed emotions reading this post. I'm far from being a
Microsoft zealot and have done my share of bashing when it was appropriate
(talk about the clowns who developed and released WinME if you want to get
me fired up), yet those folks have done a lot to try to help me in my
migration to .Net. With those caveats, here is my feeling about the whole
mess.

I pity those who had a large catalog of VB apps. It would be an enormous
rewrite, as there is no easy conversion process. Yet .Net brings a lot to
the table. And the .Net IDE compared to VB6 is incredible. Being able to get
to everything I need from one screen is a most efficient approach to
workflow. Alas, with anything less than a 19" monitor, I'd think that most
folks might feel overwhelmed by the "clutter".

I've really not had any problems with "young smarty-pants know-it-alls".
I've gotten a lot of help simply by asking some pretty dumb questions.
Buying a lot of books surely helped. Yet I'm on the backside of the ".Net
revolution". I've got a lot of apps in development, only 2 in beta, and none
ready for release. The proof shall be in the pudding as to whether or not
this new "paradigm" was worth the risk I've taken to abandon VB.

Speaking of VB, well, VB.Net "aint VB". What an unfortunate choice of
acronym that Microsoft gave their new language. About the only thing it
really shares with VB is that it doesn't use braces and semi-colons -- the
main thing that separates it from C#!! Those coming from VB6 to VB.Net are
in for a rude awakening as to the learning curve, while those who are using
VB.Net are probably going to be treated as the perennial second-class
citizens for developing with anything that has "VB" in its name. I suspect
that at some faroff date, VB.Net will go away and be merged into one .Net
language. At least, in my opinion, that is how it should be.

Installing and using MSDE is tricky. You really need to know what you are
doing or at least have a good understanding of what is going on with the
command line prompts. The command line approach leaves you flying on
instruments on a dark and stormy night, so you better know how to navigate!
If you are putting MSDE on a development machine, a better method might be
to use the SQL developer edition to create the database design and
associated scripts, then deploy MSDE to your client systems. Microsoft's
approach is to give MSDE for free by crippling it in several ways, including
without an interface, theoretically in order to force the developer to
design their own interface, but more importantly to push the upgrade path to
full-blown SQL Server. I haven't heard of anyone who enjoys the experience
of messing with MSDE. Incidentally, I am skeptical of MSDE being the best
path for a 25-user system.

"Jim Rodgers" <noreply@today.com> wrote in message
news:OrdIve4cEHA.1356@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I'm with you David.
>
> I, too, have been trying to get a nice simple introduction to MSDE, and
I've
> found it more than a little elusive. Once was the time that one always
> could find the "Hello World" example that made the new idea so totally
> clear.
>
> You humbly refer to your limited intellect. My friend, your modesty is
> wasted on Microsoft's new culture of young smarty-pants know-it-all BS
> artists and their lingo-intensive self-important convoluted technology
> paradigms. Business Objects my A--! That's nothing. Web this and XML
> that. It's a load of unscientific and illogical crap spawned from the
> convergence of the right-wing pro-business Power Cult with Bill Gates'
> misjudging of the Internet explosion. The whole company dedicates itself
to
> mouthing the holy dogma to the fearless leader who has no clothes. It's a
> cultural nightmare! We, the MS customers, are left out in the cold with
no
> clue where to find the Return on Investment we need to sell our proposals
to
> OUR customers - the Folks with the Money.
>
> Okay. So I need a simple "Install and Convert" exercise to help me convert
> my MSJet stuff to MSDE. I don't need it because I'm stupid. As a matter
of
> fact, I AM a rocket scientist. (four degrees including an Executive MBA)
I
> need the clear explanation because I fought on the losing side in the
battle
> between SQL Server and MS Access. I am defeated. Over the past ten
years,
> I've held-up multiple 25-user systems on networked MDB files, and I have
no
> regrets. My customers have saved hundreds of millions of dollars. And I
> got rich from these projects. But now, I need to move my 25-user systems
> business on to MSDE. In these lean times, I don't have the resources to
> port over my entire codebase. I don't have time to learn a 100% all-new
> computer science.
>
> They have truly made a mess on the landscape of our programming options -
> including the option to keep what we accomplished - that which we've
earned!
> I love Bill Gates. I love Microsoft. But their spoiled rich kids are too
> young to be driving. It's chaos out here. They are sowing the seeds of
the
> Visual Linux Revolution. We don't need pretentious new frameworks right
> now. We need the wise and steady hand of master craftsmen. Too many of
our
> craftsmen are suddenly working part-time jobs at Home Depot. What a
waste!
>
> Microsoft may be improving their products, but their leadership has gone
> down the toilet as far as technology evangelism is concerned. Case in
> point: VB.NET. It's a whole new language; it's not the VB that made VB a
> big success. We all are glad they are cleaning it up more every version,
> but the first time someone loads the VB.NET IDE they will usually say
"What
> the F- is this!?!?" For the FIRST TIME EVER, most of us are saying we
have
> A LOT of stuff we will NEVER migrate to the new version of VB - because we
> would have to completely rewrite it! During a recession? Screw that. My
> favorite app relies heavily on Variants, Control Arrays, ADO 2.8, and
> non-zero-based arrays. Killing-off any two of these would be burdensome;
> killing all of them (and much more) is ridiculous. Is this necessary - or
> is it esoteric BS aimed to gratify some wierd kind of in-bred effete
> snobbery in the "BASIC vs C" Twenty Year War?
>
> VB6 could be better, but now they have killed VB. There is no VB 7.0 is
> coming now. VB is dead. Why couldn't they have "fixed" FoxPro instead?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> James W. (Jim) Rodgers, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> General Consulting Engineers, LLC
> Atlanta, GA
>
> "Charter Member" MCSD
>
>
>
> "Earl" <brikshoe@newsgroups.nospam> wrote in message
> news:uLc8HCmYEHA.1656@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > It isn't easy and there is a "Pandora's box" of issues that arise,
> basically
> > because everything has to be done on the command line. You truly need to
> > follow the instructions posted on Microsoft's website for installation
and
> > deployment, then you will probably want to post your questions in the
SQL
> > server newsgroups. An alternative may be the new "SQL Server Express"
that
> > was just released as part of the VS 2005 beta.
> >
> > "David" <david@orbitcoms.com> wrote in message
> > news:9X4Ec.69555$sj4.14808@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > > Can anyone explain in plain english how to deploy a vb.net application
> > that
> > > has a SQL database
> > > using MSDE ?
> > >
> > > I have found so many snippets on line and in the several hundreds of
> > dollars
> > > of books I have purchased to understand the contents of Pandoras box,
> but
> > > none seem capable of explaining it in a way that my limited intillect
> can
> > > comprehend.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance if you can offer help that goes beyond mentioning I
> > should
> > > try other news groups.
> > >
>
>

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