Re: Questions about ghosting and unghosting

Thank you Dan. :-)
That's all anyone can ask!

Thanks
C
http://spaces.msn.com/cjvandyk



"Dan Marth" wrote:

Ok, you got me there!

I should have included a disclaimer "not supported by MS" which I usually
do. I was in a rush and left that out, sorry about that. I will try to
make sure I add that in the future.

Thanks,
Dan
"Cornelius J. van Dyk [MVP]" <c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:EAC4F088-1ECC-417A-8E12-CFFF1B08053F@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
That's exactly the point Dan!
It's one thing for YOU not to care and make the modification and find
yourself in an unsupported state, but passing the information along
without
highlighting the risks to the community is down right dangerous!
As the experts in the community providing assitance to others here, we
have
to respect the rules.
That includes the ones we don't like.
I'm not saying you should not publish the info, I'm just saying you should
always ensure you publish COMPLETE information.

Thanks
C
http://spaces.msn.com/cjvandyk



"Dan Marth" wrote:

Cornelius,

I do know all about the "un-supported" stuff but I really don't care! I
would have to say 90 percent of the SharePoint community modifies site
defs
and they have been created and a good deal modify the default site defs.
If
I didn't do everything MS considers un-supported, I wouldn't be able to
do
anything!

Thanks,
Dan
"Cornelius J. van Dyk [MVP]" <c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:00283B20-F030-4154-80ED-19196ED5F99D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OK Dan, allow me to set the record straight about a couple of things
here:

1. You rudely slammed Todd Klindt's comment as being "completely
wrong"
in
your post. The question SMR asked was how to customize their existing
site.
Todd gave the response that FrontPage is pretty much your only option.
You
then "corrected" that by advising SMR to modify the "STS" definition.
Though
this would work, you are missing one VERY IMPORTANT point. Making such
a
change will VIOLATE your support agreement and will essentially place
your
SharePoint environment in an unsupported state. Microsoft posted a KB
article outlining what is, and what is not supported in terms of
modifying
site definitions. It can be found here:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=898631. It specifically states in
the
"Unsupported scenarios" section:

"Microsoft does not support modifying the default set of site
definitions
or
area definitions that are installed when you installed Windows
SharePoint
Services and SharePoint Portal Server 2003. Additionally, Microsoft
does
not
support modifying the .xml files or the .aspx files in the default site
definition or in the default area definition."

So, the advice to modify the "default.aspx" file in the "STS" folder
clearly
violates the above.

2. I don't share your conviction in agreement with Todd Bleeker in his
post
from http://mindsharpblogs.com/todd/archive/2005/07/21/626.aspx.
a. Separation of data and logic... correct.
b. Ghost pages perform better than unghosted pages. Even Todd
Bleeker
admits this is a small difference. Instead, the main reason I've
always
steered people away from FrontPage edits has been branding.
c. Ghosted pages are like master pages... wrong! If you look at the
KB
article and observe the second unsupported scenario you will notice:

"Microsoft does not support modifying a custom site definition or a
custom
area definition after you create a new site or a new portal area by
using
that site definition or area definition. Additionally, Microsoft does
not
support modifying the .xml files or the .aspx files in the custom site
definition or in the custom area definition after you deploy the custom
site
definition or the custom area definition."

This means that even if you create a custom site definition you are not
allowed to modify it once you create site from it. So where exactly is
the
master page like functionality then?
d. Ghosted pages will upgrade and unghosted pages will not... wrong
again! I just returned from the SharePoint Conference 2006 and spent
quite a
bit of time in the migration sessions and unghosted pages upgrade just
fine
to v3. You don't gain all the slick new features of v3, but your
unghosted
v2 pages upgrade just fine to v3 and will run successfully under v3.

I just wanted to be sure that everyone has all the correct facts in
this
case while at the same time respectfully asking that we as community
contributors be more mindful of and professional in our responses.
Let's make an effort to ensure we have all the facts before dismissing
someone elses contribution as "completely wrong".
If someone is truly "completely wrong", but all means correct the
error,
but
I've not found in all my time in the newsgroups that anyone has ever
been
"complete wrong".

Thanks
C
http://spaces.msn.com/cjvandyk



"Dan Marth" wrote:

Todd,

You are correct on all but questions asked except for 2, you are way
off
on
that one. I am confused? Why would you not tell this person about
"Site
Definitions" and how to edit the raw HTML of template files in the 60
hive?

2. If you don't use Frontpage, what do you use to edit the sites if
you
require changes that can not be done in the web interface? Changes
like
adding custom url links or customized text or graphics to the home
page.
Nothing else to use, you have to use FrontPage.

This is completly wrong, if you want the edit the pages without Front
Page
just go to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Web Server
Extensions\60\Templates\1033 (1033 is for English). Just for a quick
test,
open the STS folder and then the default.aspx, remove some HTML (not
with
Front Page......use a text editor........I like www.textpad.com ) save
the
file and refresh one of your WSS sites that uses the "Team Site"
template.
Just like magic!!!

FYI, if you ever opened and saved this page with Front Page, you won't
see
the changes because it is "Un-Ghosted" and no longer reads from the
template
files.

If you really want to learn how to create "Site Definitions" and never
have
to rely on Front Page anymore, read this article
http://www.devx.com/dotnet/Article/27673

One more thing to add, I don't have *any* "Un-Ghosted" Sites and never
use
Front Page, I agree 100% with Todd Bleeker
http://mindsharpblogs.com/todd/archive/2005/07/21/626.aspx

Thanks,
Dan Marth
www.sharepointbranding.com

"Todd Klindt" <usenet@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uc%23rl0dfGHA.4276@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
My questions are:
1. When you talk about ghosting and unghosting does it refer to an
entire
site, subsite, or just a page?
Ghosting is a function of a page. A page becomes unghosted, not a
site
or
subsite.

2. If you don't use Frontpage, what do you use to edit the sites if
you
require changes that can not be done in the web interface? Changes
like
adding custom url links or customized text or graphics to the home
page.
Nothing else to use, you have to use FrontPage.

3. If you do use Frontpage, how can you reghost your sites so they
perform
better? (assuming reghosting does not mean losing all of the
customization
made in Frontpage)
You can't reghost your page and maintain your changes. You might be
able
to figure something out with a site template or something, but I'm
not
sure.

4. If you can't reghost a site that's been edited in Frontpage
without
losing the customizations, are there any tips on improving
performance
of
your site that has been edited in Frontpage?
The big performance hit from unghosting is that the page layout is
no
longer on the WFE file system, now it's in SQL. Whatever you can do
to
make SQL access faster will help. There aren't any ghost-specifc
enhancements that can be made that I know of.

5. Will Sharepoint 2007 and Sharepoint editor (or whatever they're
calling
the next version of Frontpage) work better and not have the same
ghosting
problems?
Not sure, but I'm optimistic. :)

We've got a lot of unghosted pages, thousands of them. I don't know
if
we
see much of a performance hit from them. Make some changes, use the
page,
see how they feel. They may not be as much of a problem as you
think
they
might be.

tk










.

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