Re: Object Rexx to become Open Source

From: Gerry Hickman (gerry666uk_at_yahoo.co.uk)
Date: 10/17/04

  • Next message: mayayana: "Re: Object Rexx to become Open Source" 
    Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:42:40 +0100

    Hi Al,

    >>1. It's proprietary.
    >
    > So is WSH, yet you are posting here...

    We were talking "languages", WSH is just an interface to the o/s. But
    forgetting that, surely you are not disputing the importance of open
    standards and open-source? I can assure you Microsoft are monitoring it
    very closely.

    > If you call it a beginner's language because beginner's are able to pick it
    > up quickly, then the knock against JScript would be that, because it is
    > difficult for beginner's to pick up quickly, fewer will get anywhere with
    > it. Perhaps if we all went back to punch cards things will be difficult
    > enough to make you happy.

    No, I would not be happy if it was more difficult. What I'm saying is
    that you can spend five minutes extra on day one, and save five _hours_
    a few years down the line.

    > In some environments (WSH and IE, for two) vbscript can use properties and
    > methods of objects based on classes, or COM components in binary or
    > VBScript/XML format. While this may not be as sophisticated an homage to OO
    > as provided by some other scripting languages, I have found it a significant
    > improvement over functions and subs for the work I do with it. Of course, I
    > still use functions too...

    Well we'll have to disagree there, and I certainly hope you are not
    using VBScript in IE! Even Microsoft are not that foolish. Try "view
    source" on any of their pages and you'll see it's JScript all the way. I
    also can't imagine using VBScript for XML??

    >>4. It does not have try...catch
    >
    > Agreed, that would be nice. The lack has never prevented me from getting
    > script running, though.

    But why live in the dark ages (with ugly code) when you can have nirvana?

    >>5. Block handling is poor with things like Wend.
    >
    > While - Wend is most often noted as a deprecated feature by those in the
    > know. I guess they left it in to avoid breaking code.

    My point is that a block is one character to begin, and one character to
    end (at least in all grown up languages:))

    >>6. It's not case sensitive
    >
    > One man's food is another's poison. I like case insensitivity in the symbol
    > namespace because I sometimes make a mistake with my capitalization. If it
    > was case sensitive, then I would likely make all variables lower case only
    > and constants upper case only instead of using case selectively for
    > readability.

    What about WMI and ADSI??

    > Moronic? Surely that statement is based more on emotion than on fact.

    I guess, it's like looking at a work of art. In PERL and JScript you can
    see artforms in the coding, but in VBScript it's just a horrible mess!:)

    > Too many keywords? But, fortunately for some of us, fewer key-punctuations
    > than JScript ;-)

    I see the punctuation as power. e.g.

    return (S_OK) ? true : false;

    > I have somehow gotten along without,

    But again, why struggle with out-moded technology?

    > You mean like "exit function"? You would rather have it add to the plethora
    > of keywords? I try to avoid "exit {whatever}" as much as possible in favour
    > of a simpler structured style.

    No I was thinking "as in return" like wot JScript and C have got.

    >>10. You have to switch language for client/server
    >
    > Not an issue for those of us that don't do client/server...

    Are you saying you don't use web applications or GUI at all? In most
    companies I work in, the web (both internal and external) has become
    core to the business. Even for SysAdmin tasks we use the web a lot for
    monitoring servers and workstations.

    > I fully agree there, as all too often I have trouble finding something on
    > VBScript but wind up seeing something completely different on JScript that
    > coincidentally uses the same terms as my search.

    The nice thing with JScript is that there's hardly any keywords, so it's
    hard to go wrong.

    > If anything, one might ascribe this lack of documentation to some of the
    > views you express above being held by whomever at MS:

    I find this unlikely, more a case that they just threw it up last time
    they worked on it, and never touched it since. We were just lucky that
    the ECMA influence on JScript made the whole thing self-documenting.

    > A similar, yet even trickier, question is: why would anyone want to move DCL
    > (from OpenVMS, a *real* operating system according to some) to Windows (a
    > *toy* o/s according to some), especially given the high level of DCL
    > integration into VMS, and the existence of native scripting tools in
    > Windows. Yet someone did it (XLNT).

    What is DCL?

    > Lower line-counts can be a mixed blessing. In fact, those twenty lines of
    > VBScript could be turned into a single line by changing nineteen newline
    > characters to ":". Not that that would be an improvement...

    No, no, no! I mean a fraction of the number of overall chars, not some
    line stretching off the right-hand side of the screen! I'm talking ULTRA
    compact code:)

    > How this would influence me to switch from vbscript to PERL for my admin
    > scripting, I'll never know.

    The point is, that most of us here don't just do "admin scripting", and
    don't want to have to switch languages every five minutes! Of course
    (being the WSH group) it would be fair to request we should ONLY talk
    about admin scripting while on this group, but that's another story...

    > You have certainly given mayayana some of the reasons that VB gets derision.
    > But much of it seems to boil down to personal preference. Granted, one
    > should give the personal preference of the knowledgeable serious
    > consideration. But you weaken your case in this with the fanatical tone.

    I don't see it as personal preference. It's all about the future of
    enterprise computing. I'm looking at Microsoft, IBM, Sun, day-in,
    day-out, because when a fat contract comes my way in three years time I
    want to make sure I'm ahead of the game.

    > For
    > example, if VBScript's variant variables is a joke, I am wondering what the
    > punchline is.

    I don't remember saying variant variables were a joke? 

    -- 
Gerry Hickman (London UK)
  • Next message: mayayana: "Re: Object Rexx to become Open Source"

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