Re: New problem with Firefox

Wanked, winked, weird, whatever...we are getting confused with semantics
here I believe. The layout of the page and the form may be messed up and
jumbled, but the form is still functional/usable...if you can figure out
which buttons, boxes and form controls go together. This 96/120 dpi issue
affects the *layout* of the page, not the *functionality* of the form.

Would you do me a favor? Make a copy of your Publisher file and delete all
the pages except for Evaluation form page at:
http://www.burdin-adr.com/index_files/Page637.htm . Then use
www.yousendit.com to upload the file, and email the link to that file to
yourself, and then post that link here so I can download your Pub file. I
want to do some testing and see if possibly I can escalate this with MSFT.
This page is a great example of why they need to address this 96/120 dpi
issue. When you use yousendit.com you DO NOT have to sign up to use the
services, and I use it all the time to send links to large files for
downloading, rather than attach them to an email.

DavidF

"CWWJ" <CWWJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:CEEA1E21-88C2-4E73-ADDA-BD49468C8A2F@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm not sure what you mean by "layout wanked." That can be understood as
a
good thing or a not-so-good thing, depending upon your point of view. If
this is a negative comment, then let me simply repeat what my experience
has
been viewing my web site on several different computers, some with IE6 and
FF2, some with IE7 and FF2.

The only failure I experienced was with FireFox 2 when accessed with my
display set at 96dpi. The forms pages are jumbled (although usable) and
other pages have cosmetic problems like text too small in a big text box.
However, FF2 worked perfectly when I was set at 120dpi

Both versions of IE -- IE6 and IE7 -- displayed entirely correctly in both
120dpi and 96dpi. The forms worked properly, all buttons and boxes were
in
the proper place, and all pages looked and functioned properly. Just last
night (as I reported) I used both IE7 and IE6 at 96dpi on two computers at
another location, and both worked perfectly.

As for what other web sites look like, I visit probably fifty or sixty a
day
and I sometimes can detect a site that may have been created in Publisher.
If the content of the page is over to the left with lots of white space on
the right, it could be a Publisher site because Pub can't do centering. I
am
much more likely to see weird jumbled things when I am using FireFox than
with IE, so I suspect there are other web authoring tools that have the
same
limitations as Publisher in terms of cross-browser compatibility. I
haven't
spent a lot of time switching back and forth between 96 and 120, but then
I
don't visit lots of sites with forms pages either.

Finally, just to sum up: I have had only one problem: viewing my web
site
at 96dpi on FireFox2. When I view it on FireFox2 at 120dpi, I have no
problem. I have had no problem with either IE6 or IE7 at either 96dpi or
120dpi.

"Rob Giordano (Crash)" wrote:

Ok let's review:

IE7
@ 96 dpi - layout wanked
@ 120 dpi - layout wanked
FF2
@ 96 dpi - layout wanked
@ 120 dpi - layout wanked

think about this...view any website other than yours (try Google, MS,
CNN...whatever) with your monitor setting at 96 dpi, then change it to
120
dpi...does it wank out the layout?

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression






"CWWJ" <CWWJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:CF21E805-63E3-4E5C-AC23-155FB7F33D2E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
John:
I am writing this from the crisis center where I work as a volunteer on
a
brand new Dell at 96dpi with a widescreen monitor and both FireFox and
IE7.
Our website works perfectly on IE7. Remember that the site was created
with
a setting of 120dpi, so if there was going to be a problem I would see
it
here. The forms are jumbled on FireFox as they have been all along
when
accessing our site on a 96dpi setting, but they are perfect on IE7, and
so
is
everything else (except the left registration is even more pronounced
with
a
widescreen). So I am still baffled as to why you are having an IE7
problem
at either resolution. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that
toilets flush in reverse in Australia?

"John G" wrote:

Well I just looked again (9:00AM Australian eastern time Friday) and
the evaluation form still has the buttons all in the wrong places
wiith
IE7
and FF2
and the Submit and Revise buttons are still over the line starting
"Would
you like to reveal"
(I did refresh and try on 2 machines at 1024 X 768 and 96dpi)

How did you set your screen resolution to 1024 X FOUR68 or was that a
typo??

--
John G.
Wots your REAL problem?
"CWWJ" <CWWJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:A4E6D513-7671-452C-B59B-96A14B70F2A0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
David and John G.

One final thing. I downloaded IE7 this morning and accessed our web
site.
Used the forms with no problem whatsoever, so I don't understand
John's
insistence that they "fail" with both FireFox and IE7. However, I
note
a
peculiarity in IE7 -- when viewing a web site (this one we're on
right
now,
for example), only the top half of the page is visible; the bottom
half
is
just white space. You have to scroll down to see the rest of the
page.
This
is disconcerting at best. Anybody have the same experience? I am
at
96dpi
and with a screen resolution of 1024x468. What gives?

"DavidF" wrote:

Hiya,

I agree with your computer guys. I don't like my workaround anymore
than
telling people that they have to use IE in order to view a page
properly,
which you see on some web sites. I also think the issue of
centering
your
pages or laying your pages out so that they simulate centering is
not
really
that important, if your forms pages are still jumbled for some
users
in
some
browsers.

This key issue is how the Publisher html coding engine fails to
produce
code
that works equally well whether it is produced or viewed on a
screen
or
monitor set at either 96 dpi or 120 dpi. Until now most people have
been
able to live with the pages produced at 96 dpi, as most screens and
monitors
came at that setting, but that is increasingly not the case these
days.
Also
I have no reason to doubt John G when he says that IE7 also now
chokes
on
the different dpi settings...IE6 rendered both fairly well. And
also
until
now the people that have had this problem were not using forms on
their
pages, and so if the pages looked a bit different in FF, that was
also
something people could live with. But now given all these things, I
think
you have reached a place where you should consider moving away from
Publisher.

You are also using HTTP uploading protocol which is dependent upon
FPSE.
MSFT has made that process difficult in IE7 and especially with
Vista,
and
they have stopped supporting FPSE. This means that eventually your
host
will
probably discontinue their support of FPSE...many already have.
Your
forms
are dependent upon FPSE.

Bottom line is that MSFT has to update Publisher to deal with
evolving
technology or people such as yourself will have to move on to
something
else. As Rob said, Web Expression which replaced FrontPage is your
choice
if
you want to stay with MSFT. They just released version 2, and by
most
accounts it is a great program. It just will present a big learning
curve
for you, and you will have to rebuild your site mostly from
scratch.
Alternatively, I would suggest that you consider Serif Web Plus. It
will
be
less expensive and it gives you much the same ease of use as
Publisher...perhaps easier. To my knowledge it will do everything
that
Publisher fails to do in your case...and rebuilding your site in it
shouldn't take that long.

I am sure this isn't what you want to hear, but given your
circumstances,
I
think it is time for you to abandon Publisher. Sorry, but it is
failing
you
on too many levels.

DavidF

"CWWJ" <CWWJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:E4D556C9-26E0-4E9E-8D29-0E38AB219653@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am still using IE6, but I will download IE7 tonight and see if I
find
the
same problem John G. says he noticed. Gulp. I think having two
versions,
one at 96 and the other at 120 makes sense. But some of my
computer
guys
say
I should never ask a client to "do something else" -- it makes it
appear
we
didn't know what we were doing in the first place. (Of course we
didn't).
But that certainly is an option. The "centering code" option
would
be
difficult, since we have a 28 page site that is updated fairly
often.
Did
I
understand you to say that each iteration would involve redoing
all
pages,
not just the ones being updated?

I do understand what the different screen resolutions -- 1024 x
768
to
800x600 -- might do to an attempt to fake "centering" by simply
moving
the
left margin of the page over and building the page over a
background
color,
texture, picture or design (even a custom design). But I have
done
a
couple
of sample pages this way and have viewed them at 800x600, and
although
the
page does move to the right, at that screen size it still looks
much
better
than it would jammed to the left with all that space, no matter
what
the
color or background. (Hmmm. How about creating a custom
background
of
a
photo montage that pertains to the site -- court rooms,
conference
rooms,
maybe even some kind of logo watermarking used as a background)?

But even that would not eliminate the forms problem between the
two
resolutions of 96 and 120! Is there any way you can think of to
overcome
this really fundamental problem? The pages may look okay in both
browsers,
except for the forms, which are, after all, the most important
elements
in
the web site. MS really needs to tackle this, because no web
site
created
with Publisher can guarantee that forms will ever work in both
resolutions,
when viewed on FireFox. I have just been lucky because our
client
base
is
so
small, and most are apparently aol or yahoo subscribers.

"DavidF" wrote:

Only you can decide what dpi setting to use as a default...you
know
your
customers. And yes the forms page looks ok with IE6, but
according
to
John
G. not in IE7. There simply is no simply answer I am afraid.
Publish
at
96
dpi and some people at 120 dpi are going to have problems...and
the
other
way around. My suggestion to build your site with two Pub files
is
not
a
great workaround, but I can't think of another at this point
that
would
guarantee your customers a page that will look ok in whatever
browser
at
either 96 or 120 dpi. And like I said, if you want to discuss
that
more,
let
me know...there are a couple ways to go.

I do think you are misunderstanding something though in terms of
laying
your
page out so it fills the space on YOUR monitor. You may be
viewing
your
site
with your monitor set at 1280 X 768 and your browser window at
full
screen.
But I have my monitor set at 1152X864 so any page you design to
"fill"
a
browser window at 1280 pixels wide is going to require me to
scroll
horizontally. And what if I have it set at 800 pixels wide? In
reality
I
rarely view a page at full screen, and if I do, I almost always
have
the
favorites or the history sidebar, which means I have
significantly
less
than
1152 pixels width to view the page. I also tend to use multiple
browser
windows set at less than 800 pixels wide without the
sidebars...a
leftover
practice from using IE6 without tabs. What I am saying is that
just
because
it looks like it is filling your browser on your computer,
doesn't
mean
it
won't overflow mine or still come up short for that young
person's
eyes
that
has their monitor set to 1920 pixels wide.

I do hear what you are saying about the excess padding not
looking
good...and depending on the background used, I would agree. But
the
advantage of using the centering code is that you can make a 760
pixel
width
page dynamically center in whatever width browser window it is
viewed
in.
If
it is viewed in a 800 pixel wide browser window, there will be a
tiny
amount
of padding on both sides of the page. If it is viewed on a 1920
pixel
wide


.