Re: How do I split a microsoft project task that takes x hours ov

Just for my own edification as in my classes the discussion often arises of what are the PM's responsibilities, I'm curious about the roll people designated as "Project Managers" play in your organization and how they're going to be using the templates you're building. Are they people with real design and planning functions with decision making and management control authority, inrteracting with senior managment in deciding on the budgets, analysing work requirements and deciding what work is required and what is not, coordinating with the subject matter experts actually design the project workflow, hiring and firing resources, carrying signature authority on project-related expenses, that sort of thing, or is their role more administrative with the analysts in the role of deciding what or if things need to be done, that sort of thing? I tend to think of the project manager as the person interacting with senior managemnt deciding whether the project is feasible and if it fits into the organization's overall objectives, and if so, the PM is then the one responsible for designing and creating the project from the ground up, deciding what needs to be done in what manner and who is to do it in order to meet the firms strategic goals. Since by definition projects are unique endeavors with every one being different from every other one to a greater or lesser extent, it seems that it would be really difficult to come up with workable detailed templates - generic templates outlining the broad phases and common tasks perhaps, but when you get to the level of estimated task durations etc I just don't see how it would be possible to make up a reusable template that actually means anything.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



"AndyB" <AndyB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:19FD8576-1334-4725-939B-93E4D6FFE494@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks Steve,

I fully understand what you are saying and appreciate the detailed reply.
My comments on idiot-proofing the templates were a little sarcastic I
suppose, i.e. 'ever met a PM who wasn't an idiot when it comes to MSP?' type
of thing [j/k].

The templates are generally in good shape but understanding a problem is the
first step to avoiding it. Here, all the PMs have a review with me once a
fortnight where I can maintain the structure for senior reporting and manage
any iregularities with the resource pool so I do have a degree of control.
But I am one planning analyst amoung 76 PMs so making the templates work as
well as I can should pay dividends later on as well as ongoing training and
increased project control which I am working on.

Thanks again,

Andy

"Steve House [Project MVP]" wrote:

Because the equation W=D*U must ALWAYS stay in balance, if the task type is
Fixed Units and you change the units anyway, Project has to decide whether
it's the Work or Duration that must also be adjusted. Since it's more
common for the work to be constant in the real world (it takes the same
amount of work to paint 100 square feet of wall regardless of how fast or
slowly the painters work on it) the default behaviour in the scenario you
pose is to treat the task as if it were Fixed Work and change the duration.
This doesn't have anything to do with effort driven or not - the settings of
effort driven versus non-effort driven only come into play when you add
bodies to or take them away from the task - when editing the resources that
are there without changing the actual number of resources assigned the
effort driven setting are ignored.

Idiot proof templates in project management are an impossible dream. The
function of Project is to help decision makers predict the outcomes of their
decisions. It is not a clerical tool and cannot be used passively - and
passive use where you just plug in the numbers for the template to massage
while the template designer has done all the brain-work is what templates
are all about. Because it is such a powerful tool, the only way to idiot
proof it is to make sure that idiots aren't expected or allowed to use it.
And that means the people who will be using it need to be properly trained,
not only in how to "work the software" but also how it fits in the overall
managment strategies of your organization. I'm a very strong believer that
skills in Project cannot be learned by rote memory of procedures in "how to
use the tool." Giving someone MS Project who does not have some
understanding of PM principles, some of the WHY Project works the way it
does, and how project managment methodology should be applied to meeting the
objectives of the firm is tantamount to giving a child a loaded gun to play
with.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



"AndyB" <AndyB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:6BD3E20D-4637-4CBC-8186-574BE0657400@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> This has now thrown up another interesting development.
>
> With the Task Type set to Fixed Units if I adjust the %effort on the
> assigned resource it increases the duration to reflect this new > percentage
> automatically. This doesn't happen if Task Type is set to Fixed > Duration
> but
> of course this has the other problem that we discussed with splitting > the
> task. Do you think there is a setting to avoid this. Effort Driven is
> unchecked btw.
>
> This isn't as serious as the last issue as you can simply adjust the
> duration back to what it was originally but it would be nice to set it > up
> properly so giving less to worry about in adapting processes to > circumvent
> it. Bearing in mind I need the templates to be fairly idiot proof.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy.
>
> "Steve House [Project MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Well I'll be .... you're right. Hadn't discovered that behavior >> before
>> and
>> frankly I don't quite know what to make of it.
>>
>>
>> -- >> Steve House [Project MVP]
>> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>>
>>
>> "AndyB" <AndyB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:8FF323F7-3183-498E-A5DB-A4004ECE8D5F@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Well step by step, try the following:
>> >
>> > Insert a task...
>> > Right click to enter 'task info'...
>> > on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
>> > Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt, >> > but
>> > keep
>> > an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to
>> > include
>> > the split/non-work duration also.
>> >
>> > Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split >> > is
>> > introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now
>> > includes
>> > work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I
>> > wanted
>> > it).
>> >
>> > It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
>> > I hope this helps.
>> >
>> > Andy.
>> >
>> > "Steve House [Project MVP]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and
>> >> split
>> >> it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total
>> >> elapsed
>> >> time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads >> >> "2
>> >> wks"
>> >> because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I >> >> mark
>> >> it
>> >> 50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark >> >> it
>> >> 60%
>> >> complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe >> >> and
>> >> shows
>> >> actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by
>> >> step
>> >> exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really
>> >> curiuous.
>> >> -- >> >> Steve House [Project MVP]
>> >> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>> >> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "AndyB" <AndyB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> news:D49B3087-30F0-440C-BA54-90ABAC52C780@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > Hi Steve and John,
>> >> >
>> >> > It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks >> >> > (not
>> >> > summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the
>> >> > duration
>> >> > increases to encapsulate the over time including the split >> >> > portion
>> >> > of
>> >> > the
>> >> > task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
>> >> > calculates
>> >> > based on the overall duration including the split. Given that >> >> > this
>> >> > duration
>> >> > is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the
>> >> > split
>> >> > and
>> >> > not
>> >> > clearly reference in the gantts prgress.
>> >> >
>> >> > I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It >> >> > would
>> >> > appear
>> >> > to
>> >> > be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to
>> >> > MSP
>> >> > 2003
>> >> > but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most
>> >> > recently
>> >> > MSP2000.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for your responses,
>> >> >
>> >> > Andy.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Steve House [Project MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A
>> >> >> split
>> >> >> will
>> >> >> increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the
>> >> >> duration.
>> >> >> ([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -- >> >> >> Steve House [Project MVP]
>> >> >> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>> >> >> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "AndyB" <AndyB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:1AA9891C-BF3E-4A83-B277-6CFF91B5E1E4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> > Steve,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which >> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > mean
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > the split task increases the duration thus making the % >> >> >> > complete
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > say
>> >> >> > 50%
>> >> >> > somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a
>> >> >> > template
>> >> >> > some
>> >> >> > maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me >> >> >> > how
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > change
>> >> >> > this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a
>> >> >> > split.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Kind regards,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > AndyB
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Steve House [Project MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour
>> >> >> >> segments
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. >> >> >> >> It
>> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> 6
>> >> >> >> hour
>> >> >> >> duration task. The time between segments is "off the books"
>> >> >> >> just
>> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> if
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's
>> >> >> >> like
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> weekend, it doesn't exist.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> toolbar,
>> >> >> >> click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> two
>> >> >> >> weeks
>> >> >> >> into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a
>> >> >> >> dotted
>> >> >> >> line
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the
>> >> >> >> duration
>> >> >> >> field.
>> >> >> >> It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Steve House [MVP]
>> >> >> >> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>> >> >> >> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "MrDRBC" <MrDRBC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:6314CD02-7994-4142-8900-380B3CA46C93@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project
>> >> >> >> >yesterday
>> >> >> >> >on
>> >> >> >> >an
>> >> >> >> >MS
>> >> >> >> > discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I then noticed this posting.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the >> >> >> >> > task
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > also
>> >> >> >> > went
>> >> >> >> > the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there
>> >> >> >> > including
>> >> >> >> > when
>> >> >> >> > it
>> >> >> >> > did not work.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 >> >> >> >> > hour
>> >> >> >> > task
>> >> >> >> > it
>> >> >> >> > moves
>> >> >> >> > my start date to the last day of the 2 months.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task
>> >> >> >> > that I
>> >> >> >> > wanted
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I am the only resource for this project so I do not have >> >> >> >> > any
>> >> >> >> > resources
>> >> >> >> > assigned.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I posted ÃffffÃff,Ãf,Ã,¢?oSplit >> >> >> >> > TaskÃffffÃff,Ãf,Ã,¢?Ãfff,Ãff,Ãf,Ã,Â? by
>> >> >> >> > MrDRBC.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Any ideas?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Bill Perschke
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > "Mike Glen" wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at >> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> end.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Mike Glen
>> >> >> >> >> Project MVP
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Levi Page wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate >> >> >> >> >> > you?
>> >> >> >> >> > This
>> >> >> >> >> > is
>> >> >> >> >> > the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion
>> >> >> >> >> > Groups
>> >> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> > I
>> >> >> >> >> > don't see anywhere to specify a rating?
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >> >> >> > Levi
>> >> >> >> >> >

.

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