Re: MS Project lacks basic project management features!

Most of his message dealt with planning and assigning work resources. that's the 90% was referring to. I realize (and said very clearly in my original answer) that it does not plan for ordering or replenishment of material resources nor does it do any inventory management of materials nor plan production around material availability. What it does do, as you know, is compute the total amount of materials that will be required to produce the project deliverables and thus give an estimate of how much to include for materials in the overall budget. But that's about it. As you say, material management is an important part of project managment that Project doesn't deal with. I teach my classes Project considers materials infinite in supply and always available when needed and they need to develop their own methods outside of MS Project to insure materials are where they're needed when they're needed and in sufficient quantity to do the job. In that light I also teach that one of the better justifications for a SNET constraint is projected delivery dates of materials and if materials for a certain task are coming in batches then the task needs to be broken up into a summary and subtasks segments as well.

There are other areas of PM that Project doesn't touch on as well - communication management, change management, risk management, capital management. But what it does deal with - work scheduling and cost estimating - it does quite well. I think it's unreasonable to think that one tool should do everything. The craftsman uses a variety of specialized tools, each one purpose-built to do its own part of the overall job.

I do agree with you completely with your views about the problem of scheduling resources that must be scheduled together like the pilot and the company plane. That oversight is truly an absurdity.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


"Jan De Messemaeker" <jandemes at prom hyphen ade dot be> wrote in message news:Ou6fRUAMGHA.2512@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi,

This is NOT a matter if intuitive or not intuitive, it DOES NOT plan
material resources, full stop.

I do not know where your 90% in this area come from, but following are the
100% it does not do:

- It does not allow to simulate nor plan replenishment of material resources
since "negative consumption" is considered an error and blocked by the
software
- Thus it does not allow to keep track nor plan future availability of
material resources;
- Thus it has no way to automatically recalculate the schedule when material
resources are missing.

Of course you can calculate this by hand or use a better system to plan it
(Primavera?) but it is a job that needs to be done in a "material
deliverable" project and it is part of project management (since you like to
refer to the PMBOK, chapter 12 is entirely devoted to procurement!)

Let's add to this the near impossiblility to simultaneously schedule a
machine and an operator, and you will understand why people working in
projects with a material deliverable consider project a tool for amateurs...
I do not like to say this but negating it, thinking it is not necessary,
will stop Project forever from becoming in this kind of projects, the de
facto standard it has become in "intellectual" projects such as SW
development.

Greetings,

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/
+32-495-300 620
"Steve House [Project MVP]" <sjhouse.remove.this@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
schreef in bericht news:etSX0r#LGHA.3960@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's not at all clear that it is incapable of doing those things - in
fact,
if you actually read my response you would see if you "studied up" a bit
on
using it correctly, including reading up on some of the formal PM
principles
(especially read PMI's "Guide to the PMBOK") underlaying its design, it
actually DOES do 90% of what you're claiming it doesn't. But you have to
bring something to the table in terms of learning how to use it - one
thing
it doesn't do is hold your hand. You have to take the time to learn HOW
to
use it properly to do those things. It's true it's sometimes
counter-intuitive. It's true you can't just install it on your computer,
hit the menu to start it up, and crank out plans the way you'd crank out
memos in Word after spending 10 minutes familiarizing yourself, but that's
not Project's fault. It's a powerful tool and like all powerful tools
takes
some time to learn to use it most effectively. And you need to learn what
parts of your overall business process it is an effective aid in managing
and what parts other tools would be better suited. There is no "one tool
does it all" solution, ever.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


"Ace Frahm" <AceFrahm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:2E2B195A-85D2-4287-8335-30DE4E914B38@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> It is clear that MS Project is incapable of dealing with the scope of
> real-life working environment situations I constantly find myself in.
>
> You haven't specified any software made to perform these specific
> functions
> either, you just made a general statement about using Excel instead. > Do
> you
> have a spread*** that can solve these problems?
>
> These are the problems I thought MS Project could solve easily, judging
by
> the features advetized on the outside of the box. These are the
problems
> I
> want solved. Just because I don't want to waste all my time figuring
out
> solutions to straightforward but complex & recurring problems doesn't
make
> me
> any less a "manager".

> "Steve House [Project MVP]" <sjhouse.remove.this@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> schreef in bericht news:uDnGqSqHGHA.2320@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> See embedded...
>> "Ace Frahm" <AceFrahm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:703BA4BB-92AC-47A0-A031-80830AB28A69@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >I have found things wrong/missing with MS Project that should be
>> >patched!
>> >
>> > 1. It assumes all materials are limitless. Let's say I've got a >> > pile
>> > of
>> > plywood and 2x4's and some boxes of nails. I can't use MS Project >> > to
>> > determine how many bird houses I can make before I run out of one of
> these
>> > ingredients. The program is written in such a way that it can't >> > keep
>> > track
>> > of your inventory of available stock. It assumes I can ALWAYS buy
more
>> > materials. This is almost never the case in the real world. In the
> real
>> > world, I've only got so much materials, I can't get more. I want MS
>> > Project
>> > to tell me how much I can do with what I've got. This is a basic,
>> > fundamental question anyone trying to run a project has with EVERY
>> > project.
>> > Nearly each and every project needs to do several calculations like
> this,
>> > but
>> > MS Project can't. This flaw alone makes me sorry I paid full retail
>> > for
>> > MS
>> > Project.
>>
>> You're putting the cart before the horse here. Project management is
not
>> about what you can do with what you've got. It's about estimating >> what
>> yo
> u
>> are going to need in order to achieve your business's strategic
> objectives.
>> Project will tell you that if your business requires 25 birdhouses, >> you
> will
>> somehow need to acquire XXX amount of plywood, YYY number of nails,
hire
> ZZZ
>> workers, and set aside 6 weeks to build them. You input the >> objective,
>> Project tells you what you need to do to achieve it. If you don't >> have
>> enough resources to accomplish that end, you only have two options -
> acquire
>> more resources or reduce the scope of your objectives.
>>
>> >
>> > 2. It can't make reasonable work schedule. If I have a group of
people
>> > assigned to bird house painting, I can't get MS Project to spit out >> > a
>> > personalized work schedule for each ACTUAL living person in that
group.
>> > MS
>> > Project just assumes that a group of bird-house painters are all
>> > exactly
>> > alike, with exactly the same schedule, and every person in the group
is
>> > completely interchangeable with all the other members of the group.
In
>> > the
>> > real world, this might happen, but almost never does. It can't
account
>> > for
>> > the one painter in the group who works half-days. It can't account
for
>> > the
>> > one painter who gets Wednesdays and Thursdays off.
>>
>> It absolutely will account for that - that's the whole idea behind the
>> existence of resource calendars - if it appears not to in your plan,
> you're
>> not listing your resources in sufficient detail. You don't have a
single
>> resource that is a group of 5 painters - you have 5 different >> resources
> Joe
>> Painter, Bill Painter, Fred Painter, Wilma Painter, and Betty Painter.
> You
>> can group them for convenience IF they have the same skills and IF >> they
> work
>> the same schedule but unless they are truly interchangeable parts you
>> need
>> to list them each with their own individual resource *** entry.
>>
>>
>> > Let's say I want to assign one particular painter from my "bird >> > house
>> > painters" group to paint a large special order bird house. Then I
want
> to
>> > assign the rest of the bird house painters to do the normal bird
house
>> > painting task. MS Project can't do it. It will treat the human >> > bird
>> > house
>> > painters as though they were just material ingredients to bird
houses,
> one
>> > nail no different from any other nail, no person unique from any
other
>> > person
>> > in a MS Project group resource. I guess what I'm trying to say is
that
>> > Project doesn't cope in a real world way with working unit groups of
>> > people
>> > who are unique persons, who can belong to more than one working >> > group
> and
>> > also be assigned to perform individual tasks of their own.
>>
>> See above - the only reason it does let you do that is you have taken
too
>> many shortcuts defining your resource set. If you want Project to
treat
> the
>> painters as unique individuals you must list them as unique
individuals -
>> this functionality or lack thereof is 100% under your control.
>>
>> >
>> > I want project to automatically make a REAL work schedule I can >> > print
> and
>> > post, and reasonably expect workers to follow.
>>
>> Project never creates a work schedule - YOU create the work schedule >> by
>> inputting the project's parameters. Project is only a calculator,
> creating
>> its output based on your input - GIGO.
>>
>> >
>> > 3. When I assign a group to a series of tasks, I want a setting that
> will
>> > assign ONE person from that group until his available work time is
used
>> > up,
>> > and THEN assign the next person in the group until that personâ?Ts
time
> is
>> > used
>> > up, and so on. I donâ?Tt want the ENTIRE GROUP working on the very
>> > same
>> > task
>> > at the very same time. I want the group to take care of a bunch of
ONE
> or
>> > TWO person tasks that could be happening either simultaneously or at
>> > different times. Sometimes I donâ?Tt care which particular member
does
>> > them,
>> > so long as the tasks get done (random group member selection).
>> > Sometimes
> I
>> > care what order the group members are assigned (such as, when I
assign
>> > â?opainterâ?? group to a task, always assign Tom first, no matter
what.
>> > Then
>> > always assign Sally second, when Tomâ?Ts time is used up. Miguel, >> > at
> the
>> > bottom of my group list, would always be assigned last, if needed.)
I
>> > want
>> > to be able to change this ordering too, such as â?oAfter the third
> project
>> > milestone is met, Assign Sally to tasks first, THEN assign Tom to
tasks
>> > second, and assign Miguel third, then assign all other members of >> > the
>> > painter
>> > group randomly after thatâ??.
>>
>> A task is a physical action performed by ONE resource or a resource
team
>> working as a unit and resulting in ONE specifc deliverable. Just as >> it
>> appears you're not breaking your resources down into sufficient >> detail,
>> apparently you're taking shortcuts with your task breakdown as well.
If
>> THIS birdhouse requires JOE's unique skills, both Joe and the >> birdhouse
>> require separate entries. If this task can be done by anyone in a
>> generic
>> group of 5 painters and you only want one painter on it, the Painter
>> group
>> has a max availability of 500% but you only assign it 100% - that's >> one
>> person out of the 5 and we don't care who. If you want all 5 on the
task
> at
>> once, assign the resource at 500%. Remember when you have a group,
they
> are
>> interchangeable parts and you don't care who it is that shows up each
day
> of
>> the task - as long asa warm body is there that's all that matters. If
>> you
>> have to have a schedule that says Julie comes in on Tuesday to paint
>> birdhouses, Julie MUST be listed as a separate resource, not a part of
>> the
>> generic group "painters." Caution - it's an either/or thing. If you
have
> a
>> 5 painters and Julie is one of them, you only have two choices - treat
> them
>> all as interchangeable parts and have one resource "painters" with a
max
>> availability of 500% and not list Julie at all, or have 2 resources,
>> Julie
>> with a max avail of 100% and a generic group "painters" consisting of
the
>> other 4 and its max avail is thus 400%.
>>
>>
>> > I think this would require a new way for MS Project to specify the
> maximum
>> > number of people from different groups who can work on a given task
at
> the
>> > same time.
>>
>> It already shows it - but it's not Project that specifies it, it's you
>> who
>> does it by the assignment percentage you choose. If you want 3
painters
> out
>> of the 5 in the group, assign painters at 300%.
>>
>>
>> > But I do need know WHO is going to work on what, and when, so when >> > it
>> > selects a painter at random from the painter group, it must show the
> name
>> > of
>> > the person it picked, not just â?opainter group quantity x >> > peopleâ??.
>> > (but it
>> > can have placeholder names for job slots not yet filled by a >> > specific
>> > person.
>> > Key thing is, each person of labor resource must have a specific
>> > identifier,
>> > not treated like interchangeable undistinguishable parts.)
>>
>> See above - if you need to know WHO is assigned, you must list them as
>> individuals and assign them as individuals - you are the manager >> making
> the
>> decision as to who is best suited to do the job at hand, not MS
Project.
> It
>> never decides, only reflects your decisions and you can't expect to
make
>> your job easier by off-loading that decision-making responsibility to
the
>> software. A project manager is first and formost a MANAGER, a
>> decsion-maker, not just a clerk inputting data into a computer and
> following
>> its dictates.
>>
>> > 4. Resource leveling merely attempts to create one of many possible
>> > solutions. MS Project has no means to create the OPTIMUM solution,
or
>> > even a
>> > few different possible solutions. If I want to optimize the >> > solution
>> > to
>> > maximize the number of nails I have left, MS Project can't do it. >> > It
>> > can't
>> > even optimize money savings. I want tools that can optimize any
> quantity
>> > in
>> > the program, such as finding a way to give a particular worker the
most
>> > time
>> > off, conserve a particular material, make the most profit.
>>
>> It doesn't do that because like all other PM software I'm aware of, it
is
> a
>> work scheduling program - period. IT IS NOT AN ACCOUNTING PROGRAM! >> IT
>> IS
>> NOT A MANAGEMENT EXPERT SYSTEM! IT IS NOT A STRATEGIC PLANNING >> SYSTEM!
> All
>> of those things are your job, not the software's. Only you know how
many
>> nails are required to make a birdhouse. Project will tell you how >> many
> you
>> need if you need to make 100 birdhouses but you have to tell it how
many
> are
>> needed for 1.
>>
>> Resource leveling is not resource optimizin g. It does one thing and
one
>> thing only - resoolve scheduling conflicts. I have Julie scheduled to
> spend
>> 8 hours on Monday painting birdhouses and I've also scheduled her to
>> spend
> 8
>> hours on Monday varnishing perches, two mutually exclusive tasks.
She's
>> scheduled somehow to magically achieve 16 man-hours of work during the
>> course of an 8-hour workday, an impossiblity. She can't be two places
at
>> once. Resource leveling will move one of those tasks to Tuesday
assuming
>> she's free. period. That's all it does. Anything else is your
>> responsibility because anything else requires either a personnel
decision
> or
>> a strategic decision only a human manager can make.
>>
>>
>> > Because the projectsâ?T end date isnâ?Tt always what matters most.
>> >
>> > 5. Let's say I make wedding cakes. There are three tasks I need >> > done
>> > before
>> > I can make a cake, and EACH TASK MAKES MATERIALS USED IN LATER >> > TASKS.
> The
>> > cake layers must be baked, the frosting must be whipped together, >> > and
> the
>> > bride&groom cake topper ornament must be painted. At least some of
> these
>> > materials must be created before the "final cake assembly" task >> > could
>> > begin.
>> > But just as soon as these material producing tasks have made some
>> > items,
>> > final cake assembly can begin. AND, the â?ofinal cake assemblyâ??
can
>> > continue
>> > until the ingredients are used up (when the quantity of any one of
the
>> > ingredients reaches 0 on the material resources list.) The â?ofinal
> cake
>> > assemblyâ?? TASK would not be associated with the â?obake layersâ??
> task,
>> > the â?owhip
>> > frostingâ?? task, or the â?opaint figurines taskâ??, it would begin
>> > whenever there
>> > were enough materials available to assemble a cake. If MS Project
> worked
>> > right, I could design the â?ofinal cake assemblyâ?? task so that it
>> > only
>> > begins
>> > when thereâ?Ts enough material to make 5 cakes. And then the
â?ofinal
>> > cake
>> > assemblyâ?? task would end when one of the three ingredient >> > materials
> runs
>> > out.
>> > Letâ?Ts say youâ?Tve got 40 cake layers, 5 whipped frostings, and
zero
>> > cake
>> > topper-figurines left. The â?ofinal cake assemblyâ?? task would >> > stop
>> > because you
>> > have no cake toppers left. If MS Project worked right, I could also
>> > specify
>> > that the â?ofinal cake assemblyâ?? task must stop after making 8
> finished
>> > cakes,
>> > even if thereâ?Ts more than enough materials to make additional
>> > finished
>> > cakes.
>> >
>> >
>> > In MS Project, you can't simulate this, because project has no way >> > of
>> > making
>> > a material resource become available as the result of a task
>> > completion.
>> > And, MS Project can't make a task (like the final cake assembly)
start
>> > just
>> > as soon as all the necessary material resources become available.
And,
>> > Project canâ?Tt automatically make a task end after producing
quantity
>> > X
>> > material resources.
>>
>> MS Project is not a production management application, it is a project
>> management application. Projects are defined as time-limited
undertaking
>> swith observable and discrete start and end points resulting in a
unique,
>> observable, and quantifiable deliverable. MS Project's role in that >> is
>> to
>> schedule the work required to make it happen and estimate the direct
>> costs
>> involved. Everything else that needs to be done to make it happen >> lies
>> outside its universe.
>>
>> >
>> > These production-assembly problems occur all the time in project
>> > management,
>> > but MS Project has no means to describe them, let alone find the >> > best
>> > solution.
>> >
>> > 6. Project can't simulate the availability of material from
suppliers.
>> > Let's suppose I own a juice press because I make orange juice, apple
> juice
>> > and grapefruit juice for a living. I may have several different
> suppliers
>> > of
>> > oranges, apples, and grapefruits. Each supplier may produce any
>> > combination
>> > of these fruits at any given time of the year. Sometimes no >> > supplier
> has
>> > any
>> > fruit for sale, sometimes all my suppliers have the same fruit for
sale
>> > all
>> > at once. And of course, each supplier charges a different price >> > than
> the
>> > other suppliers, for the same fruit, at the same time. If I put a
task
> in
>> > MS
>> > Project, "Press some orange juice", it could only occur when oranges
>> > are
>> > available from suppliers. If I have a task to "Press 500 gallons of
>> > orange-grapefruit citrus blend juice" with a price constraint of
$3.89
> per
>> > gallon, it can only happen when both oranges AND grapefruit >> > (material
>> > resources in Project) are available. AND, the cost constraint of >> > the
> task
>> > can ONLY be met if the supplier's price combinations work out. MS
> Project
>> > can't cope with this, it can only make one resource calendar for one
>> > material, not for multiple suppliers. But again, this is a problem
>> > that
>> > occurs constantly in real-world project management.
>>
>> Again, you're expecting it to do the managing for you, not merely
crunch
>> data while you do the managing. It don't do that, and Heaven help us
if
> any
>> software were to try.
>>
>> Paint this on your bathroom mirror so you see it every day - "MS
Project
> is
>> schedule planning and cost estimating software. IT IS NOT financial
>> modeling, planning, or management software!" It tells you nothing
about
>> what strategy you should adopt in order to meet your business
objectives.
>> It only deals with tactical planning.
>>
>> No software is a one-application-does-it-all type of beast. The
scenario
>> you're describing above is a classic case of numerical modeling which
is
>> what Excel excels at..
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve House [MVP]
>> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>>
>
>




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