Re: Late Dates incorrect after indenting under Summary Task

From: Steve House [MVP] (sjhouse.remove.this_at_to.send.hotmail.com)
Date: 02/23/05 

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:01:46 -0500

Using Project 2003 Pro with all service packs up to date. I just asked
about task 11's predecessor, but then I tried it both ways - no predecessor
for task 11 or Activity 3 FS to Task 11. Either way I get no change in the
late start dates for any of the tasks whether they're indented under the
summary or not. I followed your directions to the letter, re-check your
message quoted below to make sure there's no typo that lead me someplace
other than where you intended.

There are no other tasks in the project. When you say indent under the
summary, you are NOT indenting task 1 labeled "summary" but are indenting
tasks 2 though 15, right? 

-- 
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
"Sean" <Sean@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:2112CCC3-04E6-4438-8ABE-81E853992169@microsoft.com...
> Let me explain better.
>
> Create a project with the following info.  The summary task is not Linked.
> Don't indent it under the summary until you've added all the tasks.  All
> relationships are FS. Use a 5 day duration for all tasks.  Insert the late
> start field into your table.
>
> Now, indent all the tasks under the sumary task.  Watch the late dates
> change.  They shouldn't becuase there is no link or relationship to the
> summary line.  Microsoft has acknowledged the problem but has made no 
> promise
> to fix it.  I've heard of some work around's but not found one that is 
> 100%
>
> Thanks
> Sean
>
> ID             NAME                              PRED
> 1 summary
> 2 Start Milestone #1
> 3 Activity #1                          2
> 4 Activity #2                          3
> 5 Activity #3                          4
> 6 Finish Milestone #1         5,10
> 7 Start Milestone #2
> 8 Activity #4                           7
> 9 Activity #5                           8
> 10 Activity #6                           9
> 11 Start Milestone #                 3
> 12 Activity #7                           11
> 13 Activity #8                           12
> 14 Activity #9                           13
> 15 Finish Milestone #2            14
>
>
>
>
> "Steve House [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> I'm not aware of any "bug" like you're describing.  The total slack time 
>> of
>> a task is the amount of time it could be delayed without delaying the
>> project finish, in a nutshell.  Imagine Summary Task A with subtasks A1
>> (3d), A2 (4d), & A3 (5d).  The subtasks are not linked so they occur in
>> parallel, all starting the same day.  Summary task A links to Summary X 
>> FS
>> and Summary X in turn links FS to the Finish milestone.  What are the 
>> late
>> dates of A1, A2, & A3?  Summary A's finish is determined by A3 so the 
>> late
>> date of A3 and Summary A are the same.  Only if Summary A is delayed past
>> that point will Summary X be delayed, hence that is also the latest date 
>> it
>> can finish without delaying the project's finish.  The late finishes of 
>> A1
>> and A2 are also that same date as A3 (which is also the late finish of
>> Summary A), since they could slip by 2 or 1 day respectively before they
>> delay the finish of Summary A.  I think that is what you're describing in
>> your posting but where's the bug in that?  That is exactly the way late
>> starts and late finishes are supposed to be calculated and that's the way
>> project does calculate them.  And this is even with linking between the
>> summary tasks, which is often considered a bad idea.  The alternative
>> linking would have A1, A2, and A3 all as predecessors to X1 and no links
>> directly in or out of the summary tasks themselves but the results are
>> exactly the same.
>>
>> If I'm missing something here, please give us some concrete example that
>> demonstrates what you consider to be this bug - what Project gives you 
>> and
>> what you think it should be giving you instead (and why you feel Project 
>> is
>> wrong and your way is right).  I'm really curious.
>> -- 
>> Steve House [MVP]
>> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Sean" <Sean@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:8D16920B-D1B6-47F2-B279-B190C3F654F4@microsoft.com...
>> > Many of you know there is a "bug" in MS Project that affects the late
>> > dates
>> > and backward pass.
>> >
>> > If you indent a group of tasks under the summary task the late dates 
>> > for
>> > that group are changed by the summary task.  A weird problem that only
>> > surfaces when calculating total slack and the backward pass.
>> >
>> > I've heard of some people using MSO/MFO anchors at the end of thier
>> > network
>> > to solve this.  Does anybody else have a solution.  My company (a 
>> > rather
>> > large one) has submitted this to Microsoft and they acknowledge that it 
>> > is
>> > a
>> > bug, but aren't planning on fixing it anytime soon.
>> >
>> > Please advise.
>> >
>> > Sean
>> >
>>
>>

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