Re: Start-to-Finish dependancy looks odd in Gantt Chart
From: Steve House [MVP] (sjhouse.remove.this_at_to.send.hotmail.com)
Date: 09/25/04
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Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:10:42 -0400
I do get the same thing you do. It's related to the idea that in a Start to
Finish link, the "hinge point" if you will, is the Start time of the
predecessor and that link dictates the successor's end will always synch up
to be no earlier than to the start of the predecessor. Indeed, a
fundamental property of all links is that the link logic determines the
*earliest* (when scheduling from start) that the successor's target will
occur - FS and SS links define the earliest the successor's start can occur
in the schedule while FF and SF links define the earliest the sucessor's
finish can occur. So the earliest possible time that our task in question
can finish is Friday. Then Project works backwards, fixing the finish to
coincide with the start of its predecessor and pushing the start back into
the future until such time as the *work* covers 8 duration, i.e., actual
working, hours. We get no duration credit for Thursday or Wednesday since
no work takes place on those days. Tuesday at 5 we start to cover duration
time and will have worked back thru 8 duration hours when we get to Tuesday
at 8am. So our 1 day duration task begins Tuesday 8am and ends Friday at
8am, the end coinciding with the start time of the task that's controlling
the whole process. I grant you it would be nice to see the meeting finish
display as Tue, 5pm - makes it easier to explain to non-PM savvy managers -
but from a schedule logic standpoint that's purely cosmetic and has no
affect on the actual work schedule, critical path, budget, or what-have-you.
I wonder if the solution might be to rexamine the SF link for the meeting.
As I read your note, the first thing that popped into my mind was can the
meeting only be scheduled for the week when it looks like task 2 will begin?
What happens if task 1 gets delayed? Does task 1 HAVE to be in progress
before you can go to the meeting for approval to begin task 2 and does it
really HAVE to be the LAST Tuesday before the next phase begins or is that
just the preferred meeting? Could you perhaps hold or attend the meeting on
the first Tuesday after task 1 begins, even if its end is a few weeks away?
If I held the meeting this Tuesday, anticipating the next phase will start
this coming Friday, but then the current phase finish gets delayed is it a
problem, do we have to go back for another meeting? I may be wrong, but it
seems to me like there might be an alternate view of the situation logic.
Try this logic and links ...
Task 1 - first phase
Task 2 - approval meeting, 1 day, Tuesday only calendar, link 1SS
Task 3 - next phase, links 1FS & 2 FS
That places the meeting on the first Tuesday after task 1 begins. If task 1
has to be far enough along to provide some information needed for the
meeting, you could also have a lag time in the SS link from 1 to 2 so that
the meeting would happen on the first Tueday after task 1 is expected to be
50% or 75% complete or something like that.
Would that work?
-- Steve House [MVP] MS Project Trainer/Consultant Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs "Ryan" <langton@ci.manhattan.ks.us> wrote in message news:%235wxMtkoEHA.2380@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl... > Hi Steve, > > Thanks for your assistance. > You'll need 3 tasks to test this (I think). Task 1 and Task 2 are normal > Finish-to-Start dependancy. Task 1 needs a duration longer than the > "tuesday" task (Task 3), I set it to 10 days (while Task 3 will be 1 day). > Task 2 then has a Start-to-Finish dependancy with Task 3. You should see > the abnormal behavior with this setup. Task 3 appears to stretch out over > multiple days, even though it has only 1 day duration. Oh and I am > setting > up a special "tuesday" calendar that Task 3 uses (Tools->Change Working > Times->New. Then just assign the calendar to Task 3). > > After reading your explanation I think you may be seeing the long bar as > well ("The bar is there over Wed and Thur just like it flows over the > weekend for a 2 week task but the task is a 1 day duration task"). I do > not > want the bar, I want an arrow (1 day bar, several days arrow going to the > next task). If you do the same thing with all Finish-to-Start > dependancies > the 1 day task bar never stretches over 1 day, even if the next task > doesn't > start for several days afterwords. > > If you want an explanation as to why I need my project set up like this: > We have a project with several Phases (6 to be exact), each with a main > Construction Task. The Construction tasks need to happen one right after > the next (standard Finish-to-Start dependancies). However, before each > Construction phase, the phase must be approved in a commision meeting > (which > only takes place on tuesdays). This meeting needs to happen just soon > enough that the Construction phase will be able to start immediately after > the previous construction phase ends. I want the project Gantt Chart to > accurately show that this task only occurs on a Tuesday and is complete on > that day, but I want the dependancies so that it moves if Construction > phases finish early or late. > > Hope that explains my problem better. > Ryan > > > "Steve House [MVP]" <sjhouse.remove.this@to.send.hotmail.com> wrote in > message news:eWW0$qhoEHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >> Can you go into a bit more detail as the the other links, calendars, and > any >> constraints you have on these tasks? When I set up a simple two task >> experiment using only the information you've provided, P2003 shows the >> "finish" task to start on Thurs with a 1 day duration if the "start" task > is >> on Fri. How are you advising project that the "finish" task can only > occur >> on a Tues? How does the "start" task get placed on Fri in the first > place? >> If I create a calendar showing Tues as the only workday in the week and >> assign it as the task calendar to the "finish" task, I get it starting > Tues >> and the bar shows ending Fri, as you describe, but the duration remains >> at > 1 >> day. ie, Tues is a work day and the task is worked on then but not >> otherwise. Wed and Thur are non-working days and nothing is happening >> "inside the bar" and then on Fri again nothing is happening except that > once >> the "start" task begins we can officially declare the "finish" task to be >> complete. The bar is there over Wed and Thur just like it flows over the >> weekend for a 2 week task but the task is a 1 day duration task, not a 3 >> days duration one, since non-working days do not count toward duration. >> -- >> Steve House [MVP] >> MS Project Trainer/Consultant >> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs >> >> >> "Ryan" <langton@ci.manhattan.ks.us> wrote in message >> news:%23aIdkrYoEHA.2612@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl... >> > When you create a dependancy Start-to-Finish, Project automatically > draws >> > the (Finish) task ending immediately at the start of the other task. > For >> > my >> > project, the (Finish) task can only be done on certain days of the week >> > (Tuesdays), and only takes 1 day duration. So if my (Start) task >> > begins >> > on >> > a Friday, the (Finish) task is drawn on the Gantt chart to appear to > take >> > place the preceding Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, even though in >> > actuality, the task begins and ends on the preceding Tuesday. Is there >> > any >> > way to fix this to make the Gantt chart draw the task accurately? >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> > >> >> > >
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