Re: which is a better dev language

Java is not real time either - no runtime with a GC is. And I didn't
suggest that you shoudl write real time code in C#. In fact I recall
specifically saying C++ wasn't dead and that I use it. In fact I'm workign
on a UI project now that uses it, but for specific business reasons - not
just because they think it's superior.

I also think you're overly biased and are assuming that the entire world
seems to need either real time code that will run in any environment.
That's not the case. Managed code on the desktop succeeds for the same
reason it does on devices. It faster to develop and takes less time to
debug, and most applications do not require real time performance.

I've written drivers and kernel code. I've also written for Palm and RIM as
well as CE, so I'm not stranger to other platforms or to native development.
I also know that customers don't care if an app is done with macaroni and
paper mache as long as it fills their requirements while meeting their
budget and schedule. Managed code makes it easier to meet schedules and
budgets with larger more complex design scopes.

There's a huge market for native developers and there will be for quite some
time. Say what you will about VB6, but a lot of software was writting with
it, and a lot of it is still running in mission critical situations. Managed
code is no different.

I also love how you make some assumption that I make a living selling
managed developer tools. Another very false assumption.

I'm simply trying to let people make informed decisions on what to choose.
Saying any single path is the best for all development is a disservice to
those trying to learn and a disservice to their customers who need a

Chris Tacke
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in the Embedded World

"Brooke" <tbrooked@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
C/C++ is a long ways from being dead. I have yet to see an embedded C#
application that can be used for real time data collection. How much
firmware is written in C#? Probably about as much as there is written in
Java. GC doesn't cut it.

What about all of the Linux/Unix developers, what are they using?

Run a .NET app on a Palm device with a Palm OS? Not.

How about application such as Pro/E ( or Solidworks
( Written in C#/.NET or ever will be?? Doubt it.

How about an application such as Pocket Informant?? Really doubt that
is it written in .NET. PI is way to fast.

I would rather spend the time on a quality application that has
superior performance and doesn't require a huge runtime with constantly
changing technology. Have you ever tried to convince someone to install
the .NET 2.0 CF to run some cool 20k utility program that you cranked out?

To many people look at the initial investment (development time up
front) instead of the long term payoff (responsive apps without
limitations and loyal customers).

I look at .NET about the same way as I did VB 6. Quick for developing
database apps and prototyping, but commercial apps should be done in
C/C++. I will admit that .NET is great for web development though. I only
recommend .NET for database and web stuff.

But then again, I am not selling software that is depends on CF .Net
developers for revenue.

"<ctacke/>" <ctacke[@]opennetcf[dot]com> wrote in message
I think the Towers Of Hanoi is an edge case, as it's almost all a process
of recursion. Managed method calls are more expensive than native method
calls, and I'm guessing that that small difference is what's causing the
problem over millions of calls.

Most apps don't do this. They spend a lot of time in the UI. They call
get data from a database. They do other interactive "stuff." When you
look at the larger picture, the difference in performance is nil.
Managed code has a slow startup as the framework is loaded and JITted
(that's the 4 seconds in your example) but a splash screen takes care of

I'm not saying C/C++ are dead (I still use them for some things, and
being able to read them is still critical), but there are some strong
business reasons to *not* use them for a large number of applications.
The incredible speed of development and decrease in debugging are worth
a lot.

Chris Tacke
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in the Embedded World

"Brooke" <tbrooked@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
Here is a message that I posted a while back...

I have been doing some raw speed testing between CF1, CF2, C#, and
In the process, I found a project that I converted from native C to C#
few years ago and I decided to add it to mix. The app loaded instantly
my PPC-6700 while the .net app took four seconds to load! I was able to
open the native C app, do the updates, and close it before the .net app
opened. I then wrote a native C Towers of Hanoi app so that I could
it in my performance analysis and I came up with some interesting

VB.NET is much slower using the 2.0 framework than it was on the 1.1
framework, both on the desktop and on the compact framework.
C# is faster on the 2.0 framework, both on the desktop and on the

Native C code smokes all of the .NET framework apps.

I know that there is a trade off between development time and
and native code definitely requires more development time, but the
performance is so much better.

I am in the process of rewriting about 20 compact framework application.
The rewrite it going very smoothly as all of the .net apps were written
C# and it is easy to make the minor modifications as required. I also
to use a lot of interop calls in the .net apps because of the
limitations of
the compact framework where it is just a simple API call in native C.

I am still going to use the .net framework for my ASP.NET development
any major database applications.

Posted below are some of the results.

Compact Framework 1.0 - Towers of Hanoi

25 Discs 28 Discs 29 Discs
C# 11.094 secs 90.264 secs 176.711 secs
VB 10.363 secs 81.298 secs 162.115 secs

Compact Framework 2.0 - Towers of Hanoi

25 Discs 28 Discs 29 Discs
C# 9.928 secs 78.868 secs 158.123 secs
VB 13.586 secs 108.533 secs 216.583 secs
Native C 3.967 secs 31.697 secs 63.619 secs

"cybervedaa" <cybervedaa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
hi guys, im a newbee 2 windows mobile development (infact to all
technologies). im interested in developing 4 the windows mobile
however im confused abt which language (C++, C# or VB). could u guys
here?? another question i have is which is a better language for
development? C# or VB?