Re: Conflicts between device and PC

I'll echo your thoughts, Sven. I've never really understood the point of syncing two PCs with one mobile device since the device can't keep the data segregated anyway. If I were allowed to sync "work" and "home" data separately so they didn't "cross-polinate" to the other PCs, a dual-sync scenario would make a lot more sense.

I'm not suggesting that's an excuse for John's troubles, just agreeing that using a Pocket PC as a hardware "sync machine" to keep two PCs in sync is probably not Activesync's primary intended function (but still should work!)

And not to pick on John, but he seems to be spending an inordinate amount of time banging his head against the wall trying to get this to work. As Kathleen Anderson popped in and posted, there seems to be a WM6.1 bug that prevents reliable syncing with two PCs. (There's a long discussion on this at the WindowsMobileTraining.com website.) While MS has apparently fixed the bug recently, the fix has only been released to device OEMs, for inclusion in future ROM releases and upgrades, so it's likely John is trying to perform an impossible task- sync two PCs with a device that has a bug preventing that scenario from happening reliably.

Like you, while I've had my share of sync trouble over the years, I've never had a major clusterf*** problem like John is experiencing. My search for alternative sync tools (and eventually settling on Funambol/Scheduleworld) was more a response to the removal of sync-over-IP in WM5/AS 4.x. Syncing over WiFi was my usual sync method using Pocket PCs, and it's removal radically changed the way I interacted with mobile devices, so I was determined to get that feature back. The fact that Funambol has been more consistant than Activesync for me, and simplified keeping my laptops in sync with my desktop (as well as working on "dumbphones") were all just bonuses. (When my Tilt was lost back in December I temporarily reverted to my old Pocket PC and Nokia S60 phone for a few days until replacing it- downloading my Outlook contacts to the Nokia OTA via Funambol sync made it a little easier.)

If I had to do it all over today, I'd probably just use Google's sync tool, since that would simplify life on the mobile device side (since it uses the pre-installed Activesync instead of a potentially flakey third-party sync client). If Google adds push-GMail to their sync tool as they've hinted to, I might reconsider and switch to Google instead.


"Sven" <sejohannsen@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:3CCD4443-02DA-48FE-8B89-BA8D756BE9CA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sort of hesitate to jump in here, as I have always felt and said, AS/WMDC is the single weakest link in the Windows Mobile (or Pocket PC) landscape. Can't deny it is fraught with horror stories. The mere existence of a newsgroup dedicated just to AS is indicative, and the volume of participation is scary. I have personally had issues with AS, but not really horrible ones, though they are frustrating when they occur. Typically rebooting the PC, resetting the device, and swinging a dead cat during a full moon resolves the problem. I haven't had real noticeable data issues beyond the duplicates that are bound to crop up when syncing multiple devices to multiple PCs. The sync DB that keeps track of what was done, to what, when, is a bit fragile IMHO, and forgets that two things are the same. In my experience that has typically resulted in both being kept on both sides; a duplicate. Sometimes it seems to be an issue between revisions where something is supported on one device and not the other and that causes a difference assessment. In any case, it is not a good experience.

Sadly the reality, as I believe it, is that keeping desktops in sync was never a goal of MS with AS. That is a job for Exchange. It seems clear that the synchronization of multiple PCs was never high on the scenario list, as a very typical scenario has never been addressed. Who doesn't have a PC at work, one at home, and a laptop associated with one or the other, i.e. 3 PCs that need synchronization. Ignoring that scenario indicates to me that synchronization of PIM across PCs was never a real goal in the first place. Doing two was a concession to partnering with more than just home or work, but syncing home and work wasn't the underlying reason. In fact the byproduct mixing of home and work info, irreversibly, was an unintentional (I hope) deterrent to dual partnerships for many people.

On the point of Palm doing it well, remember that Palm never had a real file system or any real documents. The whole thing was basically a database, and the entries of any sort were DB entries. Note .pdb is Palm Data Base. I only mention this because synchronizing and merging databases is a well understood art. If your data is in fields in records, you can extend the schema to cover age, dates, indexes, etc. When you start with a little copy of the Windows file system, it presents a bit more of a challenge to keep things under control. Not intended to minimize the issue, just an acknowledgement that syncing Windows Mobile is a different problem than syncing Palm, just because of the basic OS concept.

Beyond that, don't know what to say, other than you do seem to have more severe issues than many, and so I would be looking for what is unique about your setup. Installed apps, oddball configurations, multiple USB hubs, maybe substandard USB, something. By odd configuration I mean things that are different than usual. I for instance do run an Exchange server at home, and I connect Outlook on my PCs to it. But, I sync my WM device to Outlook on a PC, not to the server. I find that causes issues when I try to create a partnership with a second PC's Outlook also connected to Exchange. Why, I don't know, but it is a scenario that MS wouldn't 'officially' expect. Why wouldn't I just sync the device with Exchange? Why would I try to sync with two PCs that really should have the same info, that should be the same as the device (syncing with Exchange)?

So, best of luck. Short of starting everything from scratch, hard reset the device, and set up the partnership before doing anything else, and let it percolate that way for a week or so to see if it stays stable (assuming it is), I don't know what to suggest that doesn't involve some sort of ritual sacrifice.

"John Ciccone" <JohnCiccone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:BCF2F673-3B85-4C0E-AB60-D5D9D67B89C0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks so much for the tips, jss. I'll look into XTND.

Another bit of a bandaid solution for you might be a little Outlook plugin
called ODIR. Outlook Duplicate Items Remover. It doesn't always get all
duplicates but sometimes it's helped in the process. One place to find it is

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,73466/description.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a41:g29:r9:c0.001619:b20089855

NB: Since I have quite a number of Notes, Tasks, Contacts, etc. I don't
really have a way of confirming that ODIR works perfectly, but searching the
net shows that people generally seem to find it reliable.

Another odd thing that ODIR can't help with is that for some reason,
Carriage Returns/Line Feeds are added to the end of my Notes. Sometimes lots
of them by accumulation. A couple of Notes have had more CR/LF that actual
text :-) This seems to change randomly and often. Subsequently, ODIR is
unable to find some duplicates since one of the notes will have 8 Carriage
Returns instead of 6.

Best of luck and thanks again.

"jss" wrote:

I have a laptop and desktop and a Treo with WM6.1. I'd like to sync
contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, and files in a given location. I found
that AS will not sync two pc's. Some folks suggest not syncing notes, and if
that doesn't help enough then don't sync tasks, and so on.

Before I got the Treo, I was very happy with KeySuite from Chapura running
on a Palm Zire 31. It has a bonus of carrying over custom categories and
label colors. I've been using it to do Outlook sync between the desk and
laptops; using AS to get the phone updated from the laptop and to also sync
the file folder. It kinda of works but since I've using the phone, I get
tons of duplicates of some appointments and notes.

I just looked at XTND Connect from Sybase, sold on handango. There is a home
and office version for $90 that might be useful. It still uses Active sync
for the connection. The Sybase website doesn't show this particular version
and the data*** for the other one is very skimpy. You can get a trial from
Handango. If I have the energy after dealing with AS I might try it.

I may just try to get my Zire scheme working right again. Some of the AS
problems are due to weaknesses in the WM applications, like no categories
for tasks or colors for appointment labels. Chapura wrote their own app for
the Palm that is more faithful to Outlook than the MS written application.



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