Re: General

I understand. In this case, think of the Pocket PC as a car, then. Let's
say that it's a recent model where a US manufacturer is using a Toyota
driveline. The car has a problem where it stalls periodically while making
left turns.

Do you a) call Toyota, since they built the engine, and demand a fix, or b)
call the US manufacturer whose nameplate is on the car and demand a fix? In
this contrived example, Microsoft is Toyota (would that it were true), and
HP, Dell, etc. are the US manufacturers. You paid your money to HP, Dell,
etc. They are the ones who assembled the device and they are the ones who
are responsible for giving you a usable product. Yes, they are counting on
Microsoft to provide much of the superstructure and it's as likely as not
that MS has a bug that is causing your problem, but the OEM is still where
you should go to push for a solution.

In this example, the people in this group are your local car club. We
didn't build the car, didn't build the engine, and may not even own the same
exact model as you do, although we all have cars with the same power plant,
or a variation, as you. When your car stalls, since you know that taking it
to the dealer mechanic may take a while and may or may not be covered by the
warranty, you ask here. Cussing out us does nothing to get your car fixed;
it just leaves you plenty of elbow room at club meetings.

Paul T.

"Matthew" <pgh1969pa@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uhJoG%23rsGHA.1596@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Paul,

I work as a Product Engineer in the automotive industry. Just as in my
situation, the customer frankly doesn't care about how hard the task is,
the particular relationship dynamics of the supplier chain, the adverse
component interactions within the system, or what supplier is ultimately
responsible for failures. My end users just want their cars to start,
stop, and run properly without excuses or qualification. It's not their
job to be concerned with these issues. When their cars malfunction, I
think the last thing on thier minds is how complex an automobile is, which
supplier had a issue, or do we have system or environmental interactions
at play. They want it fixed properly and promptly. I must sweat the
details and make things right with the end user in mind so I expect
Microsoft to do the same.

"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam DOT
com> wrote in message news:OGbDHRbsGHA.452@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm not trying to defend Microsoft's implementation, but it may be useful
to understand the why of the ActiveSync quality issues. Sorry for
wasting your time.

Paul T.

"Matthew" <pgh1969pa@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Ob6xWHXsGHA.4956@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well Paul, I you obvious didn't read my posts referirng to my problems
and where my original post stating my problem. To you I offer the
somewhat abrasive position you've took with me. If you read my posts
instead of offering MS defenses......

I already stated what my problem was more that once and where
information with more about my problem is located. If you wanted to
help, you could've chimed in any time you wanted so please don't accuse
me of complaining with out stating my case!
"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
DOT com> wrote in message news:en3rFuMsGHA.4140@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Their goal is going to be to sell as much hardware as possible, as
their only source of revenue in the mobile space is licensing of the
software. They call this a 'shared success' model, as they don't make
money (or at least not much; tools only, not enough to be worth
anything), unless the hardware vendors sell hardware. Obviously, they
don't make *anything* from sales of ActiveSync, so they aren't
super-well funded and it's not a big group. Everyone in the MVP group
picks on them, too, so there's zero chance that they aren't hearing
that they need to do better.

I won't argue about what the first goals of software improvement should
be, but back to the topic of actually *fixing* your problem, as opposed
to simply complaining about it, do you want to post those log files or
what? How about the specific information on the Pocket PC hardware? So
far, all you've given us is "It's an X51v, and I'm pissed". If you
just want to be pissed, then I'll go on to more fruitful work. I don't
get paid for this, you know.

Paul T.

"Matthew" <pgh1969pa@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:eTqT2hEsGHA.4444@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
My problem is in the thread above. The upgraded device running WM5
works as does a WM2003 device but a second WM5 device that has not
been updated no long works under AS 4.2! All three worked just fine
under 4.0. We can safely say the ROM upgrade was irrelevant to the
problem and AS 4.2 is at the core of the problem.

I'm glad it works for you but I gain no consolation with this
knowledge.

It really doesn't matter how much MS tests their software because in
the end perception is reality in the user's eye and the track record
suggest that an OS held together with patches and an 'improved' sync
host that's broken does tell a story. We can blame interacts all day
but in the end the only thing that changed on my computer was AS. The
first goal to improve software should be to do no harm.

"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
DOT com> wrote in message
news:%23iItm$DsGHA.2240@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Again, just like you, I'm going from one point of view. Yours is no
more or less valid than mine. AS 4.2 worked perfectly for me and I
had problems, resolvable, but still problems with 4.0. I'd say that,
for me, that makes 4.2 better.

It sounds to me like there is a problem with the ROM update for your
device which may be responsible for the problem. Note that MS
doesn't build those ROM updates, decide what goes in them (other than
to specify the minimum requirements to be a Pocket PC device), or
test them. The OEM is responsible for that. I'm running the latest
ROM build for my device, also, including the push e-mail support,
etc., with no problems with AS4.2.

I simply was trying to explain why 4.x is not 3.x in terms of how it
works internally (the 'why' of the change). None of that changed in
going from 4.0 to 4.2, however. The changes there were things
associated with fixing specific incompatibilities found between 4.0
and 4.2beta that caused connectivity, sync, and other problems for
people.

I'd like to help you get it fixed, but all I can recommend at this
point is to post the contents of the WCE*.* log files for AS from the
%temp% folder, along with the ROM version information from the
device. Maybe someone will spot something or someone with the same
device will respond...

Paul T.

"Matthew" <pgh1969pa@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23Bz$CtDsGHA.4852@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well, I wonder how Apple seems to do a better job with their OS and
itunes over windows and media player. I have yet to own a dap that
didn't have some form of syncing problem with wmp. I've never been
one to beat up on MS for sport but lately I've realized that all
their releases are no more than betas.

I surely wish they would stop offering solutions looking for a
problem. AS 3.8 worked well. AS 4.0 at least worked. AS 4.2 is the
first version I could not resolve my problems and I started with the
palm-sized pc! If I could go back to 4.0 I would but I can't since
MS was kind enough to break it's ability to sync with the new X51v
rom.

I like Bill Gates but I sometimes hate the seed he has spawn. They
don't offer accessible support ($25.00 to discuss how they screwed
up!) or listen to what non-corporate customers want or need!

If you have solutions to my problems which get to the root of my
problems, I'd be more than willing to listen. Trying to convince me
that 4.2 is better is a hard sell. I don't care if it connects to an
exchange server or the moon if can't connect to my ppc! It should
do this well *first* before it tries to be something else! Any
other rationalization is pointless! If it can't do it's primary
role, who cares about exchange server!

"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no
spam DOT com> wrote in message
news:%23fCgvC0rGHA.3748@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the
volume of stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC.
The beta of 4.2 worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of
people here are having problems with the released version, even.
The difference is configuration on their PC, which might be running
XP or 2000, wireless networking or wired with any one of dozens of
network helper programs, firewalls from half a dozen or more
vendors, anti-virus/anti-scripting programs from dozens of vendors,
VPN clients from half a dozen vendors and in several versions, etc.
The number of combinations that could be found in the real world is
literally astronomical; the size of the AS test team is not.

The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is
that you now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server
as you do with desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS
team (which is very small). They now have the ability to add
features, fix bugs, etc. without having to fix the same bug in two
places. The initial pain was, I'm sure, an expected problem
(although I think the severity of problems caught them a little
off-guard), but the long-term result should be better
responsiveness to problems and better synching, in general.

It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and
you can certainly pin that on the change to network communications
from just acting like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't
see that AS over USB was super-reliable before the change. The
change simply seems to have changed who is running into problems.
People who had 3.x working fine and never had a problem with that
now may have hell, while those who were always having problems
getting 3.x to work, if they're still around, may have smooth
sailing with 4.x (as I do).

Paul T.

"Matthew" <pgh1969pa@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23rgX5ObrGHA.4992@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested
any of their software before it was released. Why in the world
did they screw up AS with all this network crap that doesn't work
escapes me!

I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess!
If I'm having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I
wonder how new users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix
connection issues not create them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst
version ever!



"Tim Maher-De Troyer" <tim.maherdetroyer4@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:eAjgAparGHA.2256@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of
software ever written.

As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices
(O2 XDA II), except intermittently, no proper interface to
Windows Media Player 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity
in delivering understandable messages I shall be abandoning the
entire charade in favour of BlackBerry (You can get the music!).

This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have
encountered in years.

Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC
like devices.

Tim





















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