Re: Word 2004 + Macintel + Some Adobe OpenType Fonts = Crash on save

Hi Geoff:

Well, again I see nothing much wrong with your second document either (the
one without the equations...).

However, what I was trying to find out was what was causing the problems
with the documents you have problems with. Removing equations is a first
step. Equations are a very complex OLE object which corrupts easily. If
you remove the equations and the problem does not go away, it wasn't that!
We have a data point :-)

You said the problem is fixed by copying into a new document, not Maggying.
That means the problem is not certain kinds of document property corruption.
If it had been corrupt document properties, what you did would not have
fixed the document but a Maggie would do so. We get another data point :-)

My next suggestion after removing the equations would have been to rebuild
each of the tables. The second document you sent also had tables in it.
Tables are another complex object that corrupts easily. If we convert each
of the tables to text, then back to a table again, that might fix the
problem. If it does, we have another data point. If copying all of the
text to another document fixes the problem, then it is *likely* that the
problem is corrupt tables.

But if that did not fix the probem either, then the problem would seem more
likely to be the Agarramond font.

I also routinely create documents far more complex than these two, so as you
say, there is no particular reason why this document should fail. I've
tested your documents in Word 2004 on a G4 and Word 2003: I can't see any
reason they should fail. So I am strongly suspicious that the problem is
the ATS Font Crash issue.

BTW: This thread is mis-titled. This bug is not related to Adobe fonts or
OpenType fonts per se. It's the presence of certain glyphs in *a font used
in the document*, no matter how they are encoded (we have reports in TTF,
OTF and PostScript) . The problem has so far been reported in fonts from
Adobe and LinoType, but not Apple or Microsoft ones. Of course, that
doesn't mean that Apple and Microsoft fonts are immune, it just means nobody
has reported the problem in fonts from those suppliers yet!

The problem does not appear to occur if the document does not include a
Preview Image. Save Preview Image seems to be the installation default in
Mac Word 2004, which is why this problem is quite widespread.

Hope this helps

--

John McGhie <john@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Consultant Technical Writer, Microsoft MVP (Word, Word for Mac)
Sydney, Australia +61 (0)4 1209 1410

"gruth" <geoffruth@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1157038612.434013.168350@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I don't think that the MathType eqns are relevant. I had the same
behavior with a file only containing a table (which I've sent to you
separately). However, I do agree that the file I sent you is certainly
complex.

I don't like the corrupt idea either, because I have NEVER had problems
with these files on a PPC machine. I routinely create complex files
like this, and I've never encountered this particular style of
crashing.

Also, to reiterate, when I copied the whole thing (select all) into a
new document with preview turned off, it saved fine.


C) Your document contains MathType equations within table cells. Both
tables and equations are "complex objects" and thus subject to
corruption.

So it's possible that your document has one or more corrupt tables or
equations. If it does, copying to a new document may indeed fix the
problem.

Equations are "OLE Objects" which are stored in the same "Document
Properties" container as the Preview Picture. It may be that the
Macintel
Preview Font Crash can be caused by equations as well as preview
pictures.
It would be interesting to make a copy of one of your crashing documents
and
remove from it only the equations...

It wouldn't fix anything, but if it cured the crashes, it would give us
another data point.

Cheers

On 31/8/06 11:56 AM, in article
1156989363.121424.138480@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "gruth"
<geoffruth@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Very interesting. When I "save as..." to a new file, Word still crashes
in the old way.

However, when I "maggie" it (as you term it), it works fine. I actually
just selected all test rather than the all-but-last-paragraph approach
you describe. That worked fine.

I'll still send a copy of one of these files.

- G

John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] wrote:
Oooops... I was wrong...

1) Turn "Save preview..." OFF

2) Open document THAT WAS CREATED IN WORD 2004 and has a Preview

3) Save as new file ...

That gets rid of the Preview Image from within the document. After
that,
you should be able to Save As normally.

Further testing indicates that this works ONLY with documents created
in
Word 2004 for the Mac. I have a document here created in Word 2003 on
the
PC. I can't get rid of the preview from those documents...

On the other hand, another user who has not applied the latest Office
2004
updates cannot get rid of existing preview images under any
circumstances.

What remains to be proven is whether simply turning the Preview OFF
solves
the problem, whether the preview remains in the document or not.

* If the problem is caused simply by the preview image being in the
document, then this work-around will not cure the problem.

* If the problem is that Word is attempting to WRITE TO the Preview,
then
turning off the Preview preference will work.

Another strategy you can try is to "Maggie" the document. Copy all
but the
last paragraph mark to a brand new document (with Preview turned OFF).
That
will definitely remove the preview picture.

Hope this helps


On 27/8/06 11:31 AM, in article C1173306.44749%john@xxxxxxxxxxx, "John
McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" <john@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Geoff:

Yes, please: let's have a sample of one of those document. Please
Zip of
Stuff it so it doesn't get damaged in transit.

Also: having turned OFF "Save preview picture..." make sure you make
a
small change (add and delete a space...) then SAVE the document to
remove
the preview image from the document :-)

Cheers


On 27/8/06 5:36 AM, in article
1156620989.942141.268140@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "gruth"
<geoffruth@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi. I have some bad news.

While Aaron's method works for MOST of my documents, I'm still
getting
the same hanging behavior (Word gives beachball, other apps quit,
fonts
systemwide get weird) in some complex Word documents. In particular
anything with complex tables seems to hang the system. I'm happy to
send anyone a copy of a sample offending doc if they would like.

- Geoff


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not
email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <john@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical
Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not
email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <john@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410



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