Re: Word 2004 + Macintel + Some Adobe OpenType Fonts = Crash on save

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We have been working with Apple on fixing this problem with our
Postscript fonts.
We were told today that is has been fixed and will be in the 10.4.8
update. Are there any developers who have access to the pre-release
builds that could test it?
I do not know if this will also fix OpenType fonts.

-Tracy



Scott Melendez wrote:
Gavin (or anyone),

How many OTF fonts do you have installed vs. how many Word displays? With my
PowerBook, there seemed to be some arbitrary limit on the number of OpenType
fonts Office would display. Using a font manager didn't improve matters, but
as I've cut down on the number of fonts, I'd like to start replacing the
Type 1 versions with the OTF (for better cross-platform exchange).

--
Regards

Scott Melendez



On 06-02-06 17:01, in article 2006060301013716807-gavinlawrie@2gccouk,
"Gavin Lawrie" <gavin.lawrie@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Mystifying news from the front line...

Waiting for MS to fix the problem (or Apple etc.) is not an option for
us. In theory we can edit the documents with no fonts installed, but
printing them is a bit of a problem. So we've shelled out for a
sub-set of our fonts in Mac PS format to see if this might solve the
problem. Fortunately we only bought a sub-set - we bought the Mac PS
version of Minion Regular, Italic, Bold and Bold Italic from Linotype.
We used the Linotype font utility FontExplorer X (1.0.1) to install
these fonts. We removed all other Minion fonts from the computer
(physical deletion method), and flushed both application and system
font caches (using Linotype utility).

Then the following steps / results happened. I have no explanation for
what happens - hopefully someone can advise / suggest where to go next
with this.

1. First I confirmed that de-activating the Minion fonts worked in same
fashion to removing fonts from font folder. I deactivated Minion,
loaded the test 'crashing' document and tried to do save-as. It saved
just fine.
2. I closed Word. Activated Minion. Opened and saved-as the 'broken'
document. Save-as worked fine.
3. I edited all the 'available styles' in the broken document that used
Minion Pro, changing to the equivalent Minion font. Then I tried to
Save As... the file. I got the same cascade-crash from Word that we've
seen previously and reported on before. Force-quit and restart
computer.
4. I deactivate Minion. Flush system and application font caches. Restart.
5. Open 'broken' document and confirm save-as works OK. It does.
6. I edited styles in broken document, changing styles using Minion Pro
to use Optima (a TrueType font, used simply because it was there)
instead. Then tried to Save As... the file. Save As... works fine.
7. Close Word. Activate Minion. Edit the saved 'Optima' document -
changing styles using Optima to use Minion instead. Try Save As... and
get the cascade crash.
8. Aaaaagh!
9. Reflect on the waste of ?120 on PS fonts. Scream again.
10. Wonder what to do next. So step through steps listed above again.
Get exactly same results second time round.

Test computer is an early model MacBook Pro 2.0 with 2.0GB Ram running
10.4.6, Office 2004 (11.2.3), Acrobat Pro 7 and some other apps
installed (e.g. Skpe, Fire etc.). During tests, only Word is open.

So in summary, what do we know now?

1. Under some circumstances documents that work fine on PPC machines
cause Word 2004 to crash during Save As... operations on MacIntel
machines.
2. Removing OpenType fonts used in the document from the font folder
(or equivalent) stops document crashing word when run on MacIntel
hardware.
3. Installing similarly named PS fonts (but not using them) on machine
where OpenType fonts have been removed does not cause crash on Save
As...
4. Editing document to use the substitute PS fonts (Minion rather than
Minion Pro) causes Save As... crash to reappear
5. Editing document to use some other font (Optima rather than Minion
Pro) does not cause Save As... crash
6. Problems are narrowly linked to Word - PowerPoint 2004 (for example)
has no problems using the OpenType fonts.

Help! I really can't think what to do next. Any suggestions would be
really most helpful. Separately, I have confirmed that opening
document using NeoOffice J's Word equivalent seems to work just fine
with OpenType fonts activated: but for various reasons we really are
not keen on running NeoOffice on some machines and Word 2004 on others.

Look forward to hearing suggestions.

Gavin Lawrie




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<TITLE>Re: Word 2004 + Macintel + Some Adobe OpenType Fonts = Crash on save</TITLE>
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<FONT FACE="Frutiger LT Std 55 Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Gavin (or anyone),<BR>
<BR>
How many OTF fonts do you have installed vs. how many Word displays? With my PowerBook, there seemed to be some arbitrary limit on the number of OpenType fonts Office would display. Using a font manager didn&#8217;t improve matters, but as I&#8217;ve cut down on the number of fonts, I&#8217;d like to start replacing the Type 1 versions with the OTF (for better cross-platform exchange).<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Formata Regular"><BR>
-- <BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Scott Melendez<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Frutiger LT Std 55 Roman"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 06-02-06 17:01, in article 2006060301013716807-gavinlawrie@2gccouk, &quot;Gavin Lawrie&quot; &lt;gavin.lawrie@xxxxxxxxx&gt; wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Lucida Sans Std">Mystifying news from the front line...<BR>
<BR>
Waiting for MS to fix the problem (or Apple etc.) is not an option for <BR>
us. &nbsp;In theory we can edit the documents with no fonts installed, but <BR>
printing them is a bit of a problem. &nbsp;So we've shelled out for a <BR>
sub-set of our fonts in Mac PS format to see if this might solve the <BR>
problem. &nbsp;Fortunately we only bought a sub-set - we bought the Mac PS <BR>
version of Minion Regular, Italic, Bold and Bold Italic from Linotype. &nbsp;<BR>
We used the Linotype font utility FontExplorer X (1.0.1) to install <BR>
these fonts. &nbsp;We removed all other Minion fonts from the computer <BR>
(physical deletion method), and flushed both application and system <BR>
font caches (using Linotype utility).<BR>
<BR>
Then the following steps / results happened. &nbsp;I have no explanation for <BR>
what happens - hopefully someone can advise / suggest where to go next <BR>
with this.<BR>
<BR>
1.&nbsp;First I confirmed that de-activating the Minion fonts worked in same <BR>
fashion to removing fonts from font folder. &nbsp;I deactivated Minion, <BR>
loaded the test 'crashing' document and tried to do save-as. &nbsp;It saved <BR>
just fine.<BR>
2.&nbsp;I closed Word. &nbsp;Activated Minion. &nbsp;Opened and saved-as the 'broken' <BR>
document. &nbsp;Save-as worked fine.<BR>
3.&nbsp;I edited all the 'available styles' in the broken document that used <BR>
Minion Pro, changing to the equivalent Minion font. &nbsp;Then I tried to <BR>
Save As... the file. &nbsp;I got the same cascade-crash from Word that we've <BR>
seen previously and reported on before. &nbsp;Force-quit and restart <BR>
computer.<BR>
4.&nbsp;I deactivate Minion. &nbsp;Flush system and application font caches. &nbsp;Restart.<BR>
5.&nbsp;Open 'broken' document and confirm save-as works OK. &nbsp;It does.<BR>
6.&nbsp;I edited styles in broken document, changing styles using Minion Pro <BR>
to use Optima (a TrueType font, used simply because it was there) <BR>
instead. &nbsp;Then tried to Save As... the file. &nbsp;Save As... works fine.<BR>
7.&nbsp;Close Word. &nbsp;Activate Minion. &nbsp;Edit the saved 'Optima' document - <BR>
changing styles using Optima to use Minion instead. &nbsp;Try Save As... and <BR>
get the cascade crash.<BR>
8. &nbsp;Aaaaagh!<BR>
9.&nbsp;Reflect on the waste of &#8364;120 on PS fonts. &nbsp;Scream again.<BR>
10.&nbsp;Wonder what to do next. &nbsp;So step through steps listed above again. &nbsp;<BR>
Get exactly same results second time round.<BR>
<BR>
Test computer is an early model MacBook Pro 2.0 with 2.0GB Ram running <BR>
10.4.6, Office 2004 (11.2.3), Acrobat Pro 7 and some other apps <BR>
installed (e.g. Skpe, Fire etc.). &nbsp;During tests, only Word is open.<BR>
<BR>
So in summary, what do we know now?<BR>
<BR>
1.&nbsp;Under some circumstances documents that work fine on PPC machines <BR>
cause Word 2004 to crash during Save As... operations on MacIntel <BR>
machines.<BR>
2.&nbsp;Removing OpenType fonts used in the document from the font folder <BR>
(or equivalent) stops document crashing word when run on MacIntel <BR>
hardware.<BR>
3.&nbsp;Installing similarly named PS fonts (but not using them) on machine <BR>
where OpenType fonts have been removed does not cause crash on Save <BR>
As...<BR>
4.&nbsp;Editing document to use the substitute PS fonts (Minion rather than <BR>
Minion Pro) causes Save As... crash to reappear<BR>
5.&nbsp;Editing document to use some other font (Optima rather than Minion <BR>
Pro) does not cause Save As... crash<BR>
6.&nbsp;Problems are narrowly linked to Word - PowerPoint 2004 (for example) <BR>
has no problems using the OpenType fonts.<BR>
<BR>
Help! &nbsp;I really can't think what to do next. &nbsp;Any suggestions would be <BR>
really most helpful. &nbsp;Separately, I have confirmed that opening <BR>
document using NeoOffice J's Word equivalent seems to work just fine <BR>
with OpenType fonts activated: but for various reasons we really are <BR>
not keen on running NeoOffice on some machines and Word 2004 on others.<BR>
<BR>
Look forward to hearing suggestions.<BR>
<BR>
Gavin Lawrie<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Lucida Sans Std"><BR>
</FONT></SPAN>
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