Re: Template open/save behavior

Hi John,

On 2/14/06 8:34 PM, in article C018FA6D.2E3B8%john@xxxxxxxxxxx, "John McGhie
[MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" <john@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

So I ask again (and more specifically): Can you point me to where in the
ISO standards or Carnegie Mellon University publications "bug" is defined as
a slang synonym for "defect"....

Yes, of course I could. I could even email you several megabytes of stuff
on the subject. However, if you really want to research the dots and commas
of the various Software Engineering standards, I think it is fair for me to
expect you to be willing to do at least some of the work yourself.

In a debate :-), it is incumbent on the person making the claim to present
the supporting evidence. Why would *I* want to help *you* make your point
:-)?

The one most commonly cited internationally is:
http://www.istqb.org/fileadmin/media/glossary-1.0.pdf

Wow! Now that is really interesting. All this time I have been arguing
over the meaning of the term "bug" and taking your word for the meaning of
the term "defect". But according to the source you've quoted, the meaning
of "defect" is synonymous with what you have called "Coding Defect" and I
have called "bug"!

Let me back up a minute and explain (for anyone else still reading this :-)
how I came to that conclusion. On the page referenced above, the entry for
"bug" says "See defect." The entry for "defect" says:

A flaw in a component or system that can cause the component or system to
fail to perform its required function, e.g. an incorrect statement or data
definition. A defect, if encountered during execution, may cause a failure
of the component or system.

[This is further supported by the definition of "debugging": "The process
of finding, analyzing and removing the causes of failures in software."]

If the required function is to produce result X and the software does indeed
produce result X, then the software cannot be said to have a bug, according
to this definition that you quoted as (I assume) a definitive source.

The required function is, of course, determined by the software
designer/manufacturer. It's *his* software.

Now it may be that the *user* would like to see a different result and
believes that the designer has incorrectly understood the required function.
From the user's standpoint, the software has a design flaw (or defect), but
not a bug.

Okay, before you go off on me and tell me that, no, it's the *user* who
determines the required function (since I know that's what you're going to
say), let me tell you what I *think* has happened in the software industry
in regard to these terms.

I think that as the industry has matured, it has put greater and greater
emphasis on what the *user* requires. I think that, as a consequence, the
industry has broadened its definition of "defect" to take user requirements
into account. I think that, for that reason, the industry has found it
useful to broaden the meaning of the term "defect" and make it an umbrella
term encompassing Design Defects, Coding Defects and Specification Defects.
I think that, in the process, it has lost sight of the fact that *in the
beginning*, "bug" meant "doesn't work as it was designed to work". I think
that the International Software Testing Qualification Board" needs to update
its glossary and redefine "bug" or redefine "defect", because as the
Glossary now reads, a bug is exactly what I have contended all along.

Nope. It has NEVER had that meaning within the industry.

And it says that where?

Read 'em and weep :-)

I ain't weepin' :-). "Bug" absolutely HAS had that meaning within the
industry and your source proves it.

Cheers,

Beth


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Template open/save behavior
    ... This page does not contain a definition of the term "bug". ... ISO standards or Carnegie Mellon University publications "bug" is defined as ... those standards is an official glossary of industry terms and definitions. ... of flaw (or defect) which was not intended by the designer of the software. ...
    (microsoft.public.mac.office.word)
  • Re: Template open/save behavior
    ... "defect". ... Does it do what the CUSTOMER really wanted? ... specifications it is, if the customer didn't want it that way, it's a bug. ... days to be a design bug or a specification bug or an analysis bug. ...
    (microsoft.public.mac.office.word)
  • Re: To be a bug or not to be a bug [Was: Re: Template open/save behavior]
    ... What I say in this forum is often from the standpoint of being a "customer" ... Since I have some exposure to the software industry I know ... behaviour" that IS a defect. ... When it comes to the meaning of "bug", you and I, John (or if you ...
    (microsoft.public.mac.office.word)
  • Re: Template open/save behavior
    ... customer needs and fails to do so perhaps 'buggy' is appropriate, ... intended_ I don't see how that can be declared a bug simply because any one ... designer/manufacturer are working for me. ... A defect, if encountered during execution, may cause a failure ...
    (microsoft.public.mac.office.word)
  • Re: Error handling in C
    ... You are talking about the wrong industry. ... to their customers are not in it for the long haul (whether they ... If a bug makes it into production, ... The audience for games is not you Mr. Heathfeild, ...
    (comp.lang.c)