Re: Global / leaking sections

Maybe an easier way of saying that is:

* Yes, you are correct: The header and footer of a page must always be in
the Same section.

* The Section that contains the current headers and footers and marks the
end of their reign is the one that appears before the page on which the new
headers and footers start.

So: The ending section break may be at the very end of the "previous" page,
or it may be anywhere after the first character on the previous page. Its
headers and footers will persist until the next new page occurs. The
headers and footers on the next new page to occur will come from the NEXT
section break to occur AFTER the new page, which may, of course, be the
hidden Default Section Break at the end of the document.

Cheers


On 12/7/05 2:55 AM, in article
1121100907.062382.47570@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
"JosypenkoMJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <JosypenkoMJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> John,
> Thanks, this definitely helps - it'll take awhile to fully digest.
> I'm used to writing code (eg. Fortran) where everything is local (no
> inheritance) unless specified.
> I don't know if you saw the next Email, but to clear it up some, Word
> doen't let a header on a page to be in one section and the footer on
> the same page to be in another. Below is a simple example of what
> happens if a section is inserted in the middle of a page. The page 1
> footer should be in section 2 but Word says it is in section 1. It is
> only on the next page 2, headers and footers are placed in section 2.
>
> _____ page 1 _____________
> _____ Header - Section 1 - _____________
>
>
> text in section 1
> text in section 1
> text in section 1
> text in section 1
> _____ section break (continuous) _____________
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
>
>
> _____ Footer - Section 1 - _____________
> _____ page 2 _____________
> _____ Header - Section 2 - _____________
>
>
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
> text in section 2
>
>
> _____ Footer - Section 2 - _____________
> _____ end of page 2 _____________
>
>
> John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] wrote:
>> Hi Mike:
>>
>> OK, Microsoft tightly defines the meaning of the word "Section" as they use
>> it in a Word document :-) The concept is very complex, one of the big
>> subjects those such as yourself who deal with Word at an advanced level have
>> to get hold of.
>>
>> A "section" is "part" of a document, and does inherit all of its properties
>> from its containing document. However, and this is where things get
>> exciting, a section is an "object" within a document. Word is extremely
>> object-oriented. The concept of objects brings with it the concept of
>> inheritance and the creation of "hierarchies".
>>
>> When created, a document contains a master section (Section {last}), which
>> inherits all of the properties of the document. Then the user may set some
>> of those properties: for example, the headers and footers.
>>
>> The next section to be created (which will become Section 1) will inherit
>> those properties. However, the user may then choose to break the
>> inheritance and define properties within Section 1.
>>
>> Let's say the user then adds a section break within Section 1. It will
>> create a new Section 1. The old section 1 will become Section 2. The master
>> section will now be Section 3. Section 1 will inherit the properties of
>> Section 2. Section 2 inherits everything from Section 3 except the headers
>> and footers.
>>
>> If the user then adds a section break to Section 3, it will create a new
>> Section 3, and the master section will now be 4. The new Section 3 will
>> inherit all of the properties from Section 4.
>>
>> If the user changes the headers in Section 3, the headers in Sections 3 and
>> 4 will change. The headers in sections 1 and 2 will not.
>>
>> Each section has up to three headers (First Page, Left, and Right) and three
>> Footers. Each of those headers and footers can be set to "Same as Previous"
>> or "Not Same As Previous". The default is "Same as Previous".
>>
>> Much of the confusion occurs because "Same as Previous" and "Inheritance"
>> work the opposite way. Throughout Word the standard rule is that each
>> "object" is a "container". For example, paragraphs, tables, pictures, and
>> sections are objects.
>>
>> Each object is divided from the rest of the document by a terminating
>> structure. The terminating structure for a paragraph is the paragraph mark,
>> for a section it's the section break.
>>
>> The terminator contains all of the properties for the object. A paragraph
>> mark contains all of the style, font, and paragraph properties applied to
>> the text before it. A Section break contains all of the margins, headers
>> and footers for the section it ends.
>>
>> The above way of working is a feature of the way Word and its binary file
>> structure are designed. Originally, the design was created because it is
>> very efficient, both in terms of computing power and file size. However, to
>> human beings, it's counter-intuitive. We have difficulty understanding a
>> situation where what happens depends upon what comes next, not upon what has
>> gone before.
>>
>> So for Headers and Footers, Microsoft added code to reverse Word's native
>> behaviour with the "Same as Previous" button. The "Same as Previous" button
>> is not attached to the current section that you think you are working on:
>> the change it makes is to the properties of the section break BEFORE the one
>> you are in. When you click it, Same as Previous copies the header or footer
>> you are working on from the previous section break, overwrites that header
>> or footer in the current section, then sets the previous break to inherit
>> from the current one. You may have to read this more than once before it
>> settles as you what is really going on: I don't know about you, but it took
>> me a while to get hold of it :-)
>>
>> It's an "exception" that intentionally "breaks the rules". It was created
>> because people converting from WordPerfect simply could not get comfortable
>> with the concept of forward inheritance. They had spent years of their
>> working lives working with a product which inserted a code in the text at
>> the point from which it wanted the new formatting to "begin". They had huge
>> problems with this new-fangled Word, which inserted a terminator that not
>> only contained all of the formatting, but occurred at the point in the text
>> where you wanted that formatting to END.
>>
>> With 20-20 hind-sight, maybe it would have been better if they had not
>> created this exception. If there was only one rule and it applied
>> everywhere, I guess we would all have been forced to learn the rule early
>> and would not be having problems now. Hind-sight is the most powerful
>> design tool there is: unfortunately, it leads to difficulties in the
>> production and distribution process...
>>
>> The way Word is designed is fundamentally more powerful, more flexible, and
>> more computer-power and disk-space efficient than WordPerfect's design. You
>> will find this out if you ever try to take a single WordPerfect file beyond
>> about 160 pages: everything starts to get very, very s-l-o-w-w-w-w... Word
>> will hang in beyond 2,500 pages. It's a bit difficult to tell what the
>> actual limit is, because the Page Number counter runs out of digits at 9,999
>> -- but in a single document the practical limit is about 2,500 pages. Of
>> course you can join as many of these as you like to make a document whose
>> size is limited only by the size of your file server.
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>> On 9/7/05 5:15 AM, in article
>> 1120850127.309607.231230@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>> "JosypenkoMJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <JosypenkoMJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Microsoft doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word section. A
>>> section is a closed boundary that encloses items that can share
>>> properties, etc. only amomgst themselves. However, Word creates
>>> sections that at times allows some properties to be shared between
>>> different sections. As a simple example, I am trying to make 1 section
>>> with all 1" margins and a following section with all 0" margins. This
>>> is what Word does (commands are enclosed in __) :
>>>
>>> _____ page 1 _____________
>>>
>>>
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>>
>>>
>>> _____ page 2 _____________
>>>
>>>
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margins
>>> 1" margin
>>> _____ section break (continuous) for 1" margins _____________
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>>
>>>
>>> _____ page 3 _____________
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> _____ page 4 _____________
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> 0" margins
>>> _____ section break (continuous) for 0" margins _____________
>>>
>>>
>>> For the first section, page 1 and the beginning of page 2 have
>>> correctly a 1" margin about its top, left, and bottom. In the middle of
>>> page 2, I switch to a section of 0" margins, but at the bottom of the
>>> page, there still is a 1" margin, which should be a 0" margin. On the
>>> next page, the bottom margin is correct at 0".
>>> Any ideas ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mike
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
>> me unless I ask you to.
>>
>> John McGhie <john@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
>> Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
>

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <john@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

.

Loading