Re: When will M$ dump support for ASP?
From: Roland Hall (nobody_at_nowhere)
Date: 02/10/04
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 01:31:36 -0600
"Michael D. Kersey" wrote:
: Ken wrote:
: > Microsoft is really pushing .NET. Windows 2003 Server supports ASP and
.NET,
: > but when do they plan on dumping support for ASP on their server
altogether?
:
: Consider Microsoft's position:
: - IIS is being phased out by many companies because of security
: concerns; IIS usage on the Internet is declining.
Who says so? Your link didnt' say that. Your link also doesn't include
Intranet or Extranet and not even all Internet. I have always had more web
servers on the Intranet than on the Internet by at least 10:1. They even
state they may find some they didn't find before and vice versa.
: - The Apache server's popularity continues to grow; Apache now has more
: than 2/3 of the Internet,
: Here's a reference for the above:
:
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/09/01/september_2003_web_server_survey.html
Apache used to have the whole Internet. Now they only have 2/3, referencing
the Open Source link you provided.
: - .NET is new and therefore necessarily unproven technology with an
: uncertain future. This further hinders acceptance.
No it doesn't. Anything new is unproven. When you were born, you were new.
Did it hinder your further acceptance?
: - The majority of IIS-based web pages on the Internet today are ASP;
I'll bet the majority of IIS-based web pages on the Internet today are HTML.
: .NET usage on the Internet is currently very low,
It's new, remember?
: - The majority of Internet developers who use IIS today are
: ASP-knowledgeable; few are .NET-knowledgeable to the level where they
: would be comfortable putting a .NET site on the Internet for all to hack,
Well, if IIS security is so bad why would they care which one they're using?
It only stands to reason they're more savvy with something they have been
using for a decade vs something new to the equation.
: - .NET does not support VB6, so former VB6 programmers must learn OOP
: _and_ a new .NET language,
Since when do most developers only know one language? How many years as OOP
been around and since when does OOP in one language utilize the
understanding and experience one might have with OOP in another language?
: - .NET does not support VBScript, so former VBScript ASP developers must
: learn OOP _and_ a new .NET language,
I know almost 30 languages. Yes, learning something new requires education.
The only constant on this planet is change.
: - .NET does not support C++ as well as C#, so former C++ developers
: _may_ need to learn a new .NET language,
Cars with automatic transmissions eliminate the need to drive with two feet
since the clutch is handled automatically and so is the shifting. Drivers
moving from a car with a standard transmission will have to learn something
new. It will hinder acceptance of automatic transmissions.
: - Regardless of language (SmallTalk, C++, VB.NET, Java, C#) it requires
: a year for a _good_ developer to learn OOP.
All developers, regardless of experience, learn at the same pace. Good is
relative.
: This takes time and
: money, and during that time nothing is being produced.
Nobody ever learns on the job. And, fairies wear boots, you gotta' believe
me. I saw it, I saw it, with my own two eyes.
: Companies are
: short of money,
Perhaps the millions in stock options being paid to the few at the top could
help keep the company afloat during the 'learning curve.'
: especially when Microsoft is upping their software
: support costs.
NGs are free! Even Microsoft reps answer questions in here from time to
time.
: - The learning curve for ASP.NET can be quite steep, particularly of a
: shop chooses to use Microsoft's design patterns (Application blocks,
: etc.).
The learning curve for ASP.NET is steep if you're a moron or if you have no
experience maybe.
: OTOH, like VB6, VS.NET can be presented in a manner that makes it
: look lik a simple drag-and-drop IDE. This is beguiling but incorrect.
: - etc.
You're right VB.NET will completely stump all VB 6 developers. C# will
stump all C++ and Javascript developers.
: Anyway, you get the idea. Microsoft is in a bind (although they've lots
: of cash!8-).
Ya', they're hurting. The bread line is probably just around the corner.
I'm gonna' head out and get the latest version of Red Hat right now!
: I expect Microsoft to back off and punt, reverting to a business model
: where they support the .NET languages _and_ the older languages for the
: forseeable future.
...but, they do support them.
: Actually, they've already done that.
Oh good. You agree.
: Reason is,
: unless they do _and they explicitly say so_ they will piss off all their
: ASP developer market, who are fast abandoning Microsoft tools because of
: the list above, especially the first bulleted item.
Where do you get this insight from, your crystal ball or a bottle? Perhaps
I should have consulted with you before purchasing my MSDN Universal
subscription.
: > I know this is a common question, but nobody seems to have a definitive
: > answer, not even Microsoft!
:
: If Microsoft sets a date, they'll merely speed the hemorrhaging of
: developers and corporations. Their web server market and development
: tool market will disappear.
Ya', probably overnight.
: > I need the ASP apps that we're writing now, to be good for at least 2-3
: > years or more.
:
: No problema!
: And since there's ChiliSoft ASP and iASP, you can even migrate those ASP
: apps today to the more secure Apache server!-))
Spoken like a true *nix geek if I ever heard one. No wonder I thought I was
in a *nix group. Chili!Soft is crap. I've used it, or tried to. If it
sucked anymore it'd be owned by Hoover instead of Sun.
: References:
Ya', great references.
: Good Luck,
The final plug.
: Michael D. Kersey
So, that's what MDK stands for. I was thinking something else.
One has to wonder what you're real agenda here is. It has nothing to do
with fact.
-- Roland Hall /* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. */ Technet Script Center - http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/ WSH 5.6 Documentation - http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/list/webdev.asp MSDN Library - http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp
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